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When iCloud syncs between devices how do you think that happens without storing some type of metadata? You don’t use iCloud for anything? When you change phone

When iCloud syncs between devices how do you think that happens without storing some type of metadata? You don’t use iCloud for anything? When you change phones do you start fresh or use your computer for backups? Do sync bookmarks? Browsing history? Do you use iMessage?

Gabriel54 2y ago
In response to your question in the parent comment, no, I do not use iCloud. And I do not sync any of the things you mentioned here. If someone already consented to using iCloud to store their photos then I would not consider the service mentioned this post to be such a big issue, because Apple would already have the data on their servers with the user's consent. edit: I will just add, even if we accept the argument that it's extremely secure and impossible to leak information, then where do we draw the line between "extremely secure" and "somewhat secure" and "not secure at all"? Should we trust Apple to make this decision for us?
- 4ad 2y ago
  > If someone already consented to using iCloud to store their photos then I would not consider the service mentioned this post to be such a big issue, because Apple would already have the data on their servers with the user's consent. No, if you enable Advanced Data Protection for iCloud[1], the photos stored in Apple Photos are end to end encrypted. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756 https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756
- JustExAWS 2y ago
  Do you start fresh with an iOS installation after each upgrade or do you back up your iPhone using your computer and iTunes?
  - Gabriel54 2y ago
    I do not have anything backed up on any cloud servers on any provider. If I had to buy a new phone I would start from a fresh installation and move all of my data locally. It's not that I'm a "luddite", I just couldn't keep track of all of the different ways each cloud provider was managing my data, so I disabled all of them.
    - JustExAWS 2y ago
      If only Apple had a centralized backup service that could store everything automatically at a click of a button so you wouldn’t have to juggle multiple cloud providers…
      - NikolaNovak 2y ago
        I kinda was somewhat with you until this point. Apple IS just another cloud provider / centralized backup service. It's not fundamentally different than others, and if you're not in select group of whatever the respectful term is for those who stay strictly inside apple ecosystem, you will have multiple clouds and multiple data sets and multiple backups that all interact with each other and your heterogeneous devices in unpredictable ways. Icloud will not help you with that any more than google cloud or Samsung cloud etc. They all want to own all of your stuff, neither is simply a hyper helpful neutral director.
        JustExAWS 2y ago
        The “fundamental difference” is that it’s better integrated with your device and can backup the internal state of your device and the apps. Even if you use Microsoft Office or GSuite and save using the standard file picker, you can save to iCloud. iCloud has a native app for Windows and plug ins on Windows to sync browser bookmarks for Chrome, Edge and Firefox And the alternative people are proposing are four or five self hosted solutions?
        NikolaNovak 2y ago
        Again, I think there's an assumption of single device / ecosystem loyalty in your statement? I have an android phone and iOS phone and three android tablets and a bunch of laptops with various operating systems. Iphone is "just another device". I don't feel Icloud is any better integrated with my Samsung note, than google is integrated with my iPhone - in fact, the opposite. Google, for example, CAN sync my photos across iphone and Android and windows devices. Whereas my wife knows the primeval scream from the home office every 6 months I try to claw photos out of apple's greedy selfish hands :-) For people who JUST use iphone, sure, Icloud is the boss just like for people who JUST use e.g. Samsung galaxy the Samsung cloud is awesome. But that's not a high bar. I feel we are still lacking empathy here for people like original poster who may have more than one device in their lives.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
walterbell 2y ago
Some iOS apps synchronize data with standard protocols (e.g. IMAP, WebDAV, CalDAV) to cloud or self-hosted services.
- JustExAWS 2y ago
  And that doesn’t help with internally stored data within apps, settings, which apps you have installed on what screen, passwords, etc
  - walterbell 2y ago
    iOS supports local device backups.
    - JustExAWS 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - walterbell 2y ago
        Apple iTunes, iMazing (3rd party), Linux imobiledevice (OSS).
      - 47282847 2y ago
        Modern MacOS has that functionality included, no iTunes necessary.
latexr 2y ago
None of that is relevant to my point. You seem to be trying to catch people in some kind of gotcha instead of engaging honestly with the problem at hand. But alright, I’ll bite. Yes, I always start with clean installs, both on iOS and on macOS. Sometimes I even restart fresh on the same device, as I make sure my hardware lasts. I don’t sync bookmarks, I keep them in Pinboard and none of them has any private or remotely identifiable information anyway. I don’t care about saving browser history either, in fact I have it set to periodically auto-clear, which is a feature in Safari.
- JustExAWS 2y ago
  No I am trying to say with a connected device using online services, the service provider is going to have access to your data that you use to interact with them. To a first approximation, everyone in 2024 expects their data and settings to be transferred across devices. People aren’t working as if it is 2010 when you had to backup and restore devices via iTunes. If I’m out of town somewhere and my phone gets lost, damaged or stolen, I can buy another iPhone, log into my account and everything gets restored as it was. Just as I expect my watch progress to work when I use Netflix between my phone, iPad, Roku devices etc.
  - latexr 2y ago
    And that should rightfully be your informed choice. Just like everyone else should have the right to know what data their devices are sending before it happens and be given the informed choice to refuse. People shouldn’t have to learn that from a random blog post shared on a random website.
    - JustExAWS 2y ago
      In what world is Netflix for instance not going to know your watch history? How many people are going to say in 2024 that they don’t want continuous cloud backup? You want Windows Vista style pop ups and permissions?
      - 2y ago

Gabriel54 2y ago

In response to your question in the parent comment, no, I do not use iCloud. And I do not sync any of the things you mentioned here. If someone already consented to using iCloud to store their photos then I would not consider the service mentioned this post to be such a big issue, because Apple would already have the data on their servers with the user's consent. edit: I will just add, even if we accept the argument that it's extremely secure and impossible to leak information, then where do we draw the line between "extremely secure" and "somewhat secure" and "not secure at all"? Should we trust Apple to make this decision for us?

4ad 2y ago
> If someone already consented to using iCloud to store their photos then I would not consider the service mentioned this post to be such a big issue, because Apple would already have the data on their servers with the user's consent. No, if you enable Advanced Data Protection for iCloud[1], the photos stored in Apple Photos are end to end encrypted. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756 https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756
JustExAWS 2y ago
Do you start fresh with an iOS installation after each upgrade or do you back up your iPhone using your computer and iTunes?
- Gabriel54 2y ago
  I do not have anything backed up on any cloud servers on any provider. If I had to buy a new phone I would start from a fresh installation and move all of my data locally. It's not that I'm a "luddite", I just couldn't keep track of all of the different ways each cloud provider was managing my data, so I disabled all of them.
  - JustExAWS 2y ago
    If only Apple had a centralized backup service that could store everything automatically at a click of a button so you wouldn’t have to juggle multiple cloud providers…
    - NikolaNovak 2y ago
      I kinda was somewhat with you until this point. Apple IS just another cloud provider / centralized backup service. It's not fundamentally different than others, and if you're not in select group of whatever the respectful term is for those who stay strictly inside apple ecosystem, you will have multiple clouds and multiple data sets and multiple backups that all interact with each other and your heterogeneous devices in unpredictable ways. Icloud will not help you with that any more than google cloud or Samsung cloud etc. They all want to own all of your stuff, neither is simply a hyper helpful neutral director.
      - JustExAWS 2y ago
        The “fundamental difference” is that it’s better integrated with your device and can backup the internal state of your device and the apps. Even if you use Microsoft Office or GSuite and save using the standard file picker, you can save to iCloud. iCloud has a native app for Windows and plug ins on Windows to sync browser bookmarks for Chrome, Edge and Firefox And the alternative people are proposing are four or five self hosted solutions?
        NikolaNovak 2y ago
        Again, I think there's an assumption of single device / ecosystem loyalty in your statement? I have an android phone and iOS phone and three android tablets and a bunch of laptops with various operating systems. Iphone is "just another device". I don't feel Icloud is any better integrated with my Samsung note, than google is integrated with my iPhone - in fact, the opposite. Google, for example, CAN sync my photos across iphone and Android and windows devices. Whereas my wife knows the primeval scream from the home office every 6 months I try to claw photos out of apple's greedy selfish hands :-) For people who JUST use iphone, sure, Icloud is the boss just like for people who JUST use e.g. Samsung galaxy the Samsung cloud is awesome. But that's not a high bar. I feel we are still lacking empathy here for people like original poster who may have more than one device in their lives.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

walterbell 2y ago

Some iOS apps synchronize data with standard protocols (e.g. IMAP, WebDAV, CalDAV) to cloud or self-hosted services.

JustExAWS 2y ago
And that doesn’t help with internally stored data within apps, settings, which apps you have installed on what screen, passwords, etc
- walterbell 2y ago
  iOS supports local device backups.
  - JustExAWS 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Apple iTunes, iMazing (3rd party), Linux imobiledevice (OSS).
    - 47282847 2y ago
      Modern MacOS has that functionality included, no iTunes necessary.

latexr 2y ago

None of that is relevant to my point. You seem to be trying to catch people in some kind of gotcha instead of engaging honestly with the problem at hand. But alright, I’ll bite. Yes, I always start with clean installs, both on iOS and on macOS. Sometimes I even restart fresh on the same device, as I make sure my hardware lasts. I don’t sync bookmarks, I keep them in Pinboard and none of them has any private or remotely identifiable information anyway. I don’t care about saving browser history either, in fact I have it set to periodically auto-clear, which is a feature in Safari.

JustExAWS 2y ago
No I am trying to say with a connected device using online services, the service provider is going to have access to your data that you use to interact with them. To a first approximation, everyone in 2024 expects their data and settings to be transferred across devices. People aren’t working as if it is 2010 when you had to backup and restore devices via iTunes. If I’m out of town somewhere and my phone gets lost, damaged or stolen, I can buy another iPhone, log into my account and everything gets restored as it was. Just as I expect my watch progress to work when I use Netflix between my phone, iPad, Roku devices etc.
- latexr 2y ago
  And that should rightfully be your informed choice. Just like everyone else should have the right to know what data their devices are sending before it happens and be given the informed choice to refuse. People shouldn’t have to learn that from a random blog post shared on a random website.
  - JustExAWS 2y ago
    In what world is Netflix for instance not going to know your watch history? How many people are going to say in 2024 that they don’t want continuous cloud backup? You want Windows Vista style pop ups and permissions?
    - 2y ago