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My main point wasn't the exact amount... I rather wanted to point out that the puff piece describes their pay as "significantly above minimum wage" while in fac

by blurry 18y ago

My main point wasn't the exact amount... I rather wanted to point out that the puff piece describes their pay as "significantly above minimum wage" while in fact it's a measly $25,000/year. I may be wrong on this one but I live in New York and I know LA is only slightly cheaper... there is absolutely no way one could live in New York on $27,000 (got the figure via a cost-of-living city-to-city calculator). I mean, it's theoretically possible but not without subjecting yourself to Dickensian living conditions.

josefresco 18y ago
Blurry, it's great that you choose to live in one of the most expensive cities in the entire world thereby requiring you to make much more than the average American, however most people don't. These immigrant workers are living in and around LA (already) and I highly doubt there are many employers lining up to pay them the same wage.
- blurry 18y ago
  Jose First, I am choosing to live in New York to exactly the same degree that those immigrant workers are choosing to live in LA, second, I am an immigrant worker myself, and third, as I pointed out, cost of living in LA is very similar to NY. If you want to argue on facts, let's hear something other than "you are spoiled and don't know what you are talking about".
  - Retric 18y ago
    You can live in NY on 15$ an hour. You need some roommates and you toss the car for public transport, but after that your cost of living is not that bad. Back in collage I shared my room with some random stranger and it was one of the best times of my life so sharing a room with someone is not the end times.
    - blurry 18y ago
      Back in college. My point exactly.
      - Retric 18y ago
        At 15 US$ * 50h/week * 48weeks/year = 36,000 U.S. dollars living at 515 West 52nd St., New York, NY 10019 a 2bed 2 bath is 5,265 / month, but it's a block from central park. Split that 4 ways and your rent is 1,316 but utility costs are low. (There are cheaper places to live around there, but these are fairly nice apartments.) 15 US$ * 50h/week * 48weeks/year = 36,000 U.S. dollars, I had a single apartment at 1050$ per month and a car while making 38k so I know it's reasonable to make it like that. Now having a wife and kids on that is not going to happen in that area but NY is more a place for the young or the rich. Edit: 36k = 28k take home so about a grand a month after rent. PS: Trying to make it on 15$ an hour in NY, NY might seem stupid, but a good internship can be worth it.
        yummyfajitas 18y ago
        You are also picking the most expensive place to live. A big 2 bed 2 bath duplex with a porch is $2100 up in Harlem (near 125th). That's $525/month split 4 ways, also a very nice apartment (3 blocks from the 4/5/6 train). If you work between lower manhattan and 33rd st, you can live in Jersey City and rent a huge 3 bedroom for $1500 ($500 split 3 ways). Commute time is 15-25 minutes.
arockwell 18y ago
LA does not seem to have very different numbers, but I'm not familar with the area so I can't really interpet the data on this page very well: http://www.city-data.com/city/Los-Angeles-California.html http://www.city-data.com/city/Los-Angeles-California.html
utnick 18y ago
there are a ton of people working at burger king or other restaurants, street vendors, bus ticket attendants, broadway ushers, and busboys that make less than that in nyc Its certainly not impossible. 15$ an hour is pretty good.
- blurry 18y ago
  It's one thing to make sweeping statements about welfare of others and quite another to realistically look at what that means. I am nitpicking here but let's go over your list... I am going to break it down to how it really is in NYC (I presume LA is not that dissimilar): burger king workers - unhappiest people you'll see anywhere... excepting teens and other temporary situations, completely unemployable outside the fast food industry street vendors - mostly cash income, probably make more than reported $15/hour, probably have other jobs to support them through the cold winter months bus workers - unionized, make up to $70k/year broadway ushers - mostly volunteers or actors who only work until they "make it" and only to network with other theater people busboys - mostly illegal mexicans with little other choice, excepting some high end restaurants where they make more than $15/hour and do it as an apprenticeship to better paying jobs I think most people who say that $15/hour in a major city like New York or LA is pretty good would not themselves concede to subsist on that little while working that hard... and I know what I am talking about, having done some of those hard-labor jobs when I first immigrated into the US. It only works in temporary situations such as students or apprenticeships, or as a means to support higher artistic aspirations. I would bet all of my money that not a single person on here (including those 6 who upvoted your comment) would choose a career of a $15/hour laborer for themselves, and I think it's a little patronizing to say that it's ok for others.
  - potatolicious 18y ago
    I agree with your post, but I think it's disingenuous to say that $15 is unacceptable because the rest of us won't accept it. My first job after moving out was $15/hr (though not in NYC, makes a difference), and while things were tough it was survivable. Would I go back to that job? Hell no. Hauling literally tons of crates around a factory floor each day, climbing inside freezing semi trailers in the dead of the Canadian winter... all for that kind of pay? No thanks. But that doesn't mean the pay is necessarily bad for someone who, unlike my fortunate self, has no choice in his jobs. I do agree though - in the context of NY or LA, $15 is not a survivable wage. It's the kind of wage that keeps you alive, but also keeps you trapped in your dead-end job forever.
fallentimes 18y ago
I guess I'd argue that people aren't entitled to a certain wage. The biggest problem is: switching jobs isn't as easy and transparent as it should be.
yummyfajitas 18y ago
You can live 15 minutes outside manhattan on $25k/year, and do just fine. I did this my last year of grad school. Does having a roommate count as "Dickensian" living conditions?
- blurry 18y ago
  Grad school. My point exactly.
  - yummyfajitas 18y ago
    What is your point? That "living with a roommate" == "dickensian living conditions"? The only changes to my lifestyle now that I have a real job is a) no roommates and b) I drink outside more than in, and pay less attention to happy hour.

by blurry 18y ago

josefresco 18y ago

Blurry, it's great that you choose to live in one of the most expensive cities in the entire world thereby requiring you to make much more than the average American, however most people don't. These immigrant workers are living in and around LA (already) and I highly doubt there are many employers lining up to pay them the same wage.

blurry 18y ago
Jose First, I am choosing to live in New York to exactly the same degree that those immigrant workers are choosing to live in LA, second, I am an immigrant worker myself, and third, as I pointed out, cost of living in LA is very similar to NY. If you want to argue on facts, let's hear something other than "you are spoiled and don't know what you are talking about".
- Retric 18y ago
  You can live in NY on 15$ an hour. You need some roommates and you toss the car for public transport, but after that your cost of living is not that bad. Back in collage I shared my room with some random stranger and it was one of the best times of my life so sharing a room with someone is not the end times.
  - blurry 18y ago
    Back in college. My point exactly.
    - Retric 18y ago
      At 15 US$ * 50h/week * 48weeks/year = 36,000 U.S. dollars living at 515 West 52nd St., New York, NY 10019 a 2bed 2 bath is 5,265 / month, but it's a block from central park. Split that 4 ways and your rent is 1,316 but utility costs are low. (There are cheaper places to live around there, but these are fairly nice apartments.) 15 US$ * 50h/week * 48weeks/year = 36,000 U.S. dollars, I had a single apartment at 1050$ per month and a car while making 38k so I know it's reasonable to make it like that. Now having a wife and kids on that is not going to happen in that area but NY is more a place for the young or the rich. Edit: 36k = 28k take home so about a grand a month after rent. PS: Trying to make it on 15$ an hour in NY, NY might seem stupid, but a good internship can be worth it.
      - yummyfajitas 18y ago
        You are also picking the most expensive place to live. A big 2 bed 2 bath duplex with a porch is $2100 up in Harlem (near 125th). That's $525/month split 4 ways, also a very nice apartment (3 blocks from the 4/5/6 train). If you work between lower manhattan and 33rd st, you can live in Jersey City and rent a huge 3 bedroom for $1500 ($500 split 3 ways). Commute time is 15-25 minutes.

arockwell 18y ago

LA does not seem to have very different numbers, but I'm not familar with the area so I can't really interpet the data on this page very well: http://www.city-data.com/city/Los-Angeles-California.html http://www.city-data.com/city/Los-Angeles-California.html

utnick 18y ago

there are a ton of people working at burger king or other restaurants, street vendors, bus ticket attendants, broadway ushers, and busboys that make less than that in nyc Its certainly not impossible. 15$ an hour is pretty good.

blurry 18y ago
It's one thing to make sweeping statements about welfare of others and quite another to realistically look at what that means. I am nitpicking here but let's go over your list... I am going to break it down to how it really is in NYC (I presume LA is not that dissimilar): burger king workers - unhappiest people you'll see anywhere... excepting teens and other temporary situations, completely unemployable outside the fast food industry street vendors - mostly cash income, probably make more than reported $15/hour, probably have other jobs to support them through the cold winter months bus workers - unionized, make up to $70k/year broadway ushers - mostly volunteers or actors who only work until they "make it" and only to network with other theater people busboys - mostly illegal mexicans with little other choice, excepting some high end restaurants where they make more than $15/hour and do it as an apprenticeship to better paying jobs I think most people who say that $15/hour in a major city like New York or LA is pretty good would not themselves concede to subsist on that little while working that hard... and I know what I am talking about, having done some of those hard-labor jobs when I first immigrated into the US. It only works in temporary situations such as students or apprenticeships, or as a means to support higher artistic aspirations. I would bet all of my money that not a single person on here (including those 6 who upvoted your comment) would choose a career of a $15/hour laborer for themselves, and I think it's a little patronizing to say that it's ok for others.
- potatolicious 18y ago
  I agree with your post, but I think it's disingenuous to say that $15 is unacceptable because the rest of us won't accept it. My first job after moving out was $15/hr (though not in NYC, makes a difference), and while things were tough it was survivable. Would I go back to that job? Hell no. Hauling literally tons of crates around a factory floor each day, climbing inside freezing semi trailers in the dead of the Canadian winter... all for that kind of pay? No thanks. But that doesn't mean the pay is necessarily bad for someone who, unlike my fortunate self, has no choice in his jobs. I do agree though - in the context of NY or LA, $15 is not a survivable wage. It's the kind of wage that keeps you alive, but also keeps you trapped in your dead-end job forever.

fallentimes 18y ago

I guess I'd argue that people aren't entitled to a certain wage. The biggest problem is: switching jobs isn't as easy and transparent as it should be.

yummyfajitas 18y ago

You can live 15 minutes outside manhattan on $25k/year, and do just fine. I did this my last year of grad school. Does having a roommate count as "Dickensian" living conditions?

blurry 18y ago
Grad school. My point exactly.
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  What is your point? That "living with a roommate" == "dickensian living conditions"? The only changes to my lifestyle now that I have a real job is a) no roommates and b) I drink outside more than in, and pay less attention to happy hour.