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If a company is operating in a foreign nation sure. If a company is operating in America on American soil and refusing to hire Americans because they want to sa

If a company is operating in a foreign nation sure. If a company is operating in America on American soil and refusing to hire Americans because they want to save a buck, they should face penalties. I do not see hiring foreigners as being pro-American.

brianwawok 2y ago
Then make this choice when you own a company. What % of your paycheck are you willing to donate to being pro America?
- w4ffl35 2y ago
  > Then make this choice when you own a company Absolutely I would. > What % of your paycheck are you willing to donate to being pro America? This is a tu quoque logical fallacy. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it, but I can tell you that I'd rather take a pay cut than hire a foreigner.
  - brianwawok 2y ago
    Great! Then I encourage you to do so. And then after you do, we can come back and you can tell us how company X should do Y. Otherwise you are just sitting there complaining when you would likely do the same thing given the same choices.
    - w4ffl35 2y ago
      Sure fund me and let's see what happens.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    your heart is obviously in the right place but you could not be competitive. this is like I got a team of ballers and everyone is on steroids (which are legal). you have a high moral ground and care for your ballers and would never let them dope. your chances playing against my team are not going to be that great…
- ipaddr 2y ago
  Logically you should pay taxes on the money earned from American customers at American rates to the American government.
layer8 2y ago
More software companies are operating internationally nowadays than aren’t, I would assume. And publicly-traded companies are generally owned internationally to some degree. It’s rarely in the interest of a company to restrict themselves to a single country. Furthermore, most of the hardware that you use directly or indirectly, wasn’t manufactured in the US. The globalization trend of companies, job markets, consumers, and supply chains being spread around the world will likely only grow. Most things are internationally interdependent nowadays, there’s no good reason for why the job market should be any different.
maeil 2y ago
The comment is mostly talking about Silicon Valley big tech, of which exactly 100% operates in many countries.
- w4ffl35 2y ago
  Having worked for a startup and lost my job to remote workers in a foreign country because they were cheaper and being told "we can hire 3 or 4 of them for the price of you" has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
  - maeil 2y ago
    I can tell you that US tech companies making enormous amounts of money from your country's populace while contributing back near-zero jobs in return is just as bitter.
    - c0redump 2y ago
      This line of reasoning is deeply flawed. If US tech companies are “making enormous amounts of money from your country’s populace”, then your country is getting something in return, e.g. access to Apples hardware products, amazons cloud, or googles search engine. Why should it matter if they also open an office in your country?
      - maeil 2y ago
        It isn't at all, and having lived in countries on both sides of the coin, I can tell you that people are getting a worse product in return, without the local job creation. I've written more about it here [1]. A trivial example is Google Maps. I've gone a bit more in-depth on that example here [2]. In a nutshell, you get much less enshittification, far better customer support (humans instead of ML models), and all the other things that used to be completely normal but were slowly boiled away while getting people used to it in the name of shareholder returns. For clarity, I took the discussion as being about software, as physical goods (including hardware) are an entirely different beast which my points don't necessarily apply to. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538601 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046
atemerev 2y ago
Under capitalism, a private company has duties to shareholders first. If you want companies has duties to their host country first, there are other social systems for that. Perhaps fascism.
- w4ffl35 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - atemerev 2y ago
    Yes, you would. And I would prefer to eradicate all damned fascists out of the world, like we did in 1945. We are not the same.
    - w4ffl35 2y ago
      I'm able to thrive under any political system. Globalism is just large scale fascism in my eyes.
- worik 2y ago
  > Under capitalism....are other social systems for that. Perhaps fascism. That is, obviously, a false dichotomy
dmantis 2y ago
When US sells stuff, it's all pro free-market. When US competes, there are tiktok potential bans and whining about workers from other countries. You can only pick one to be fair. You either don't sell your products to the outside world (and kill the economy) or provide equal opportunities for nations you earn money from.

brianwawok 2y ago

Then make this choice when you own a company. What % of your paycheck are you willing to donate to being pro America?

w4ffl35 2y ago
> Then make this choice when you own a company Absolutely I would. > What % of your paycheck are you willing to donate to being pro America? This is a tu quoque logical fallacy. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it, but I can tell you that I'd rather take a pay cut than hire a foreigner.
- brianwawok 2y ago
  Great! Then I encourage you to do so. And then after you do, we can come back and you can tell us how company X should do Y. Otherwise you are just sitting there complaining when you would likely do the same thing given the same choices.
  - w4ffl35 2y ago
    Sure fund me and let's see what happens.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  your heart is obviously in the right place but you could not be competitive. this is like I got a team of ballers and everyone is on steroids (which are legal). you have a high moral ground and care for your ballers and would never let them dope. your chances playing against my team are not going to be that great…
ipaddr 2y ago
Logically you should pay taxes on the money earned from American customers at American rates to the American government.

layer8 2y ago

More software companies are operating internationally nowadays than aren’t, I would assume. And publicly-traded companies are generally owned internationally to some degree. It’s rarely in the interest of a company to restrict themselves to a single country. Furthermore, most of the hardware that you use directly or indirectly, wasn’t manufactured in the US. The globalization trend of companies, job markets, consumers, and supply chains being spread around the world will likely only grow. Most things are internationally interdependent nowadays, there’s no good reason for why the job market should be any different.

maeil 2y ago

The comment is mostly talking about Silicon Valley big tech, of which exactly 100% operates in many countries.

w4ffl35 2y ago
Having worked for a startup and lost my job to remote workers in a foreign country because they were cheaper and being told "we can hire 3 or 4 of them for the price of you" has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
- maeil 2y ago
  I can tell you that US tech companies making enormous amounts of money from your country's populace while contributing back near-zero jobs in return is just as bitter.
  - c0redump 2y ago
    This line of reasoning is deeply flawed. If US tech companies are “making enormous amounts of money from your country’s populace”, then your country is getting something in return, e.g. access to Apples hardware products, amazons cloud, or googles search engine. Why should it matter if they also open an office in your country?
    - maeil 2y ago
      It isn't at all, and having lived in countries on both sides of the coin, I can tell you that people are getting a worse product in return, without the local job creation. I've written more about it here [1]. A trivial example is Google Maps. I've gone a bit more in-depth on that example here [2]. In a nutshell, you get much less enshittification, far better customer support (humans instead of ML models), and all the other things that used to be completely normal but were slowly boiled away while getting people used to it in the name of shareholder returns. For clarity, I took the discussion as being about software, as physical goods (including hardware) are an entirely different beast which my points don't necessarily apply to. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538601 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046

atemerev 2y ago

Under capitalism, a private company has duties to shareholders first. If you want companies has duties to their host country first, there are other social systems for that. Perhaps fascism.

w4ffl35 2y ago
[flagged]
- atemerev 2y ago
  Yes, you would. And I would prefer to eradicate all damned fascists out of the world, like we did in 1945. We are not the same.
  - w4ffl35 2y ago
    I'm able to thrive under any political system. Globalism is just large scale fascism in my eyes.
worik 2y ago
> Under capitalism....are other social systems for that. Perhaps fascism. That is, obviously, a false dichotomy

dmantis 2y ago

When US sells stuff, it's all pro free-market. When US competes, there are tiktok potential bans and whining about workers from other countries. You can only pick one to be fair. You either don't sell your products to the outside world (and kill the economy) or provide equal opportunities for nations you earn money from.