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Missile Strike Confirmed as Cause of Azerbaijan E190 Crash – Aeroxplorer.com
- hei-lima 2y ago[flagged]
- GiorgioG 2y agoYou must be a troll.
- FabHK 2y agoIt probably exploded near the aircraft. That would explain the shrapnel damage.
- 4ad 2y agoAll air missiles explode near the target.
- baq 2y agoWorth noting MANPADS try to get much closer than all the bigger ones because they can't carry too much shrapnel (if any).
- DebtDeflation 2y agoA lot of modern AA missiles don't use any traditional shrapnel at all. They use what's called a continuous rod warhead. It's a bunch of steel rods arranged as a cylinder with alternating ends welded to each other on each side effectively making it one long rod. The explosive charge is placed in the middle and when it goes off the rod expands into one big rod in a circle which then cuts the aircraft in half.
- JohnBooty 2y agoYeah, it's fascinating to me. In casual discussions (the only kind I am qualified to have) I just refer to it all generically as "shrapnel" but as you say it's more nuanced in practice. For casual discussions it's IMO generally sufficient to just call it all shrapnel, to differentiate between reality and the Hollywood images of missiles slamming directly into planes and making big fiery explosions.
- stefan_ 2y agoTraditionally. Newer interceptors like PAC-3 are designed for hit-to-kill, using the kinetic energy of the interceptor itself to hit and destroy the target directly. The downside is you need more advanced sensors to get the required guidance accuracy, the upside is less "dead weight" for a warhead.
- JohnBooty 2y agoThat's super interesting. I did not know that! Thank you!
- BalinKing 2y agoAn Airbus has also survived a missile strike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_sho...
- JohnBooty 2y agoThis is an obvious troll post, but it is interesting how an airliner kept flying in spite of taking a missile hit (or two?) The answer is that surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles don't generally slam into their target and erupt into a big flamey explosion. Instead, they are more like shotgun shells that explode near their target. Moving targets are hard to hit (especially e.g. a fighter plane attempting to evade) so this gives them a greater chance to damage their target. It's also not generally necessary to blow a target to smithereens. Planes are fragile and insanely complicated. Militarily, damaging one is as good as destroying it. Even if it remains airborne that plane is going to have to leave the fight and even if it makes it back to base it's not going to be flying again for a long time, if ever. So it's not too surprising that an airliner stayed aloft for a time after a missile hit. It would not have been blown to bits, and it has at least two engines. A single missile, exploding nearby, could leave at least one engine and some/most control surfaces functional. (Of course, often a missile strike is fatal to an airliner, as we have also unfortunately seen throughout history)
- pfdietz 2y agoIt looks from videos like the hit caused fatal damage to pitch control, probably damaging the horizontal stabilizer or its hydraulics.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- asdff 2y agoWhat a terrible article. Published by staff aka ai. Nearly unusable on mobile with more ads for temu crap than actual content.
- fisherjeff 2y agoHere’s a better article, linked to by this post: https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/26/exclusive-preliminary-investigation-confirms-russian-missile-over-grozny-caused-aktau-cras https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/26/exclusive-preliminary-in...
- icegreentea2 2y agoI guess the E190 got quite lucky. Pantsir doesn't fire a small missile. Wiki implies it has a 20kg warhead. Pantsirs' role as regimental air defense means that it is very much intended to take out fast jets. One quirk I wonder about is if these types of missiles are biased towards detonating towards the rear of a target. For a fast jet this would be towards the engines and tail assembly, while for most civilian airliners that would "just be" the tail assembly. I wonder where the launcher was sited. One would naively expect that the SAM would be sited near the airport, in which case there'd seem to be a high probability that the E190 was more or less flying head on towards the SAM and missile.
- lewis1028282 2y agoThe missle that struck MH17 detonated just above the cockpit
- JohnBooty 2y agoI'm just an armchair nerd, no expert, so I welcome corrections. Going only by Wikipedia, it's a fragmentation warhead probably designed to explode in proximity to the target. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system 20kg of explosive is a lot of hurt. But, depending on where the missile is in relation to the plane, only a small amount of that kinetic force may be transferred to the target. At best, 50% if it's directly beside the target? And at some point it's just kind of a dice roll whether those fragments hit anything vital, sever fuel and hydraulics, etc. From a military standpoint an air to air missile really only needs to damage a target. Any damage at all is going to remove a target from the fight and that airframe will not fly again for a long time if ever. I will stress again my lack of anything other than armchair knowledge!
- zitterbewegung 2y agoOne of the rockets (57E6) has a thermal sensor but, also has radar and optical. Hypothetically it could have either hit the target early which was hitting the wing) and missed the tail end of the target or was homing for the heat source which would have been either aircraft engine and probably hit the one closest. Note this is only going from the Wikipedia page and looking at the armament section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system
- surfingdino 2y ago"Putin apologises over plane crash, without saying Russia at fault" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqx8l1533j5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqx8l1533j5o
- okasaki 2y agoAmazing how we still don't know who blew up nordstream 2 though.
- ekianjo 2y agoOh we know, but we are forced to pretend something else.
- krona 2y agoGermany has issued an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian suspect.
- rich_sasha 2y agoIt's very different. NS2 is long, largely unmonitored/unmonitorable, with lots of semi-anonymous traffic overhead. It's literally not that difficult to do for any country's competent special forces. Shooting down a plane is much harder, and only Russia would have AA missiles over Russian territory.
- piva00 2y agoThat tired ol' fallacy[0] again... It's like unison from a certain cohort when these posts come up. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism