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> joining NATO was always going to be seen as a provocative act By who? Propagandists trying to rationalize invading a sovereign nation? If I join one neighbo
by CyberDildonics 2y ago
> joining NATO was always going to be seen as a provocative act
By who? Propagandists trying to rationalize invading a sovereign nation?
If I join one neighbor's neighborhood watch group, another neighbor doesn't get to say I provoked them and burn my house down.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago[flagged]
- CyberDildonics 2y agoI don't know what you're talking about that isn't within a sovereign country's rights. Do you think russia was "provoked into invading" ? Just come out and say it.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoI dont really see what rights have to do with it. My point is that the current situation was entirely predictable, and in fact, it was widely predicted. I'm not making some moral point.
- The_Colonel 2y agoThat analogy still doesn't justify coming to your house and killing your family.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoSo what? In a just world, there would no violence or threats whatsoever. My point was that it was entirely predictable. If you point a gun at someone else, you are likely to get shot. Especially if they tell you repeatedly that they will shoot you if you point a gun at them.
- CyberDildonics 2y agoUkraine never pointed a gun at russia. They didn't threaten them or try to intimidate them. This is like someone saying they will start locking their doors, so someone else says they were forced to rob and murder them. It's absurd from any perspective except for warped "don't believe your own eyes, ears and thoughts" Orwellian propaganda.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoI dont think Russia was threatened by Ukraine, but NATO and more specifically the US. All of these analogies break down because there is no real world equivalent to a purely defense action like locking your doors. The idea that NATO and the US especially only engage in defensive military actions is what requires an insane level of reality denial. At any rate, Im not even trying to claim Russia has a moral high ground, just that the situation was completely predictable. At best, it was like putting your hand in a cage with the rabid dog. You can make a moral point that the dog shouldn't bite, but it is still idiotic to ignore the barking, snapping, and foaming at the mouth.
- CyberDildonics 2y agoNow NATO and the US forced russia to invade a sovereign country and go to war with them, killing hundreds of thousands of people? Also now somehow russia is not full of human people but has the intelligence of a rabid animal with a disease affecting its brain and somehow their borders were crossed with aggression? I'm guessing there is no explanation or evidence coming for any of these claims because if you had it, you would have put it in your comment.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoI didnt say anything about forced, you did. The analogy with the dog is that you know exactly what will happen, not the biology. What claim do you want evidence for? That Russia was willing to invade Ukraine and kill hundreds of thousands? I think the evidence speaks for itself. They were willing to do it.
- rat87 2y agoNATO is a defense pact. And your portrayal of NATO is ridiculous. NATO bent over backwards to satisfy Russian paranoia. NATO had barely any troops(just enough to say if you invade and kill them it's war) in the eastern NATO member countries until the full scale invasion of Ukraine.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoNATO has never once been used in a defensive war, and is constantly used in wars of aggression, primarily by the US. It would be too exhausting to even type and link the various countries the US currently bombing and fighting in during 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#Extraterritorial_and_major_domestic_deployments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-the-us-has-bombed https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
- Mawr 2y agoThe point of a defence pact is not to wage war, but to avoid it. The US being a part of NATO does not mean all actions the US takes are on behalf of NATO.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoSure. But surely you see how providing us bases to launch its attacks, house air defense, and project military power. The US doesn't spend billions defending foreign countries out of altruism. The US doesn't need help from tiny European countries to defend itself.
- rat87 2y agoName one NATO base east of germany. When did it open?