6 ms·

I'm the opposite of woke but he's not wrong that suits are a western thing and and enforcing it as if it's universal is a bit pushy

by mam2 2y ago

motorest 2y ago
> suits are a western thing I think you're commenting out of ignorance. FIDE's dress code does accepts "national costumes", on par with suits and Bermuda shorts. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_... It's an arbitrary list of clothing items that is supposedly put together to "promote a good and positive image of chess", regardless of where you come from.
- blagie 2y ago
  "Business casual (European standards), which means long trousers or pants, shirt, jacket, with or without tie (no t-shirts, no polo, no jeans, no sports shoes or sneakers or slippers, no hats or caps (except for religious reasons) and the equivalent style of dress for women players. National costumes and team uniforms are allowed." It quite literally says "European standards." National costumes -- I don't know the context here -- usually means vetted traditional clothing (such as, for India, a sari, but not the much more common selwar suit). It also -- by definition -- excludes minority groups (for example, Inner Mongolia or Tibet in China, or the Kurds in Turkey). There's also the very practical matter that "minority groups" include neurodiversity too. The whole point is to judge people on their chess and not on their looks. It's the exact same issue as professional hairstyles or, before that, professional skin colors. A 1930-era US or German management consulting firm would obviously look worse to clients with a non-white consultant. There was an objective reason to discriminate in positions. That didn't make it right. In either case, if the goal of FIDE was to make money, discriminating would make complete business sense, regardless of ethical value. If the goal is to promote chess, people should be able to see themselves in the game, and participate regardless of how they choose to look. Back to the management consulting example, in 1930, a qualified black management consultant would serve the additional benefit of being an ambassador to and role model for their community.
- lowbloodsugar 2y ago
  So a USA player can wear blue jeans?
seattle_spring 2y ago
> I'm the opposite of woke What exactly do you think that word means?
- griomnib 2y ago
  I find people who use it in a derogatory don’t do much actual thinking to start with. The literal origin of its use in social justice realms was to put an emphasis and value on critical thinking. By pondering the nature of society one can be “awoken” to the deeper sociological forces which shape individual lives. I’ll freely admit the term has been perverted by a range of actors with motivations I disagree with. But the original meaning and intent is valuable: all of us live in a world of hidden boundaries and power structures, but seeing that requires thought. Many people don’t want to think for themselves, and they hate those that do.
  - krapp 2y ago
    You aren't wrong, but to be entirely fair, the original meaning of "woke" came from the black activist community and referred to the hidden boundaries and power structures of systemic white supremacy, ignorance of which could directly threaten their lives. I think it's important to remember that specific context when talking about where "woke" as a concept comes from, its general acceptance within the leftist community has, unfortunately (and maybe inevitably,) come with a bit of whitewashing.
    - griomnib 2y ago
      Totally agree.
  - codr7 2y ago
    That's far from the whole story though. Part of being woke is usually seeing others as asleep and not as enlightened, which means it's ok to lecture them to hell and back. There's a difference between thinking critically and looking for problems to feel superior.
    - 2y ago
fnordpiglet 2y ago
FWIW blue jeans are about as western (literally!) as you get.
_yb2s 2y ago
> I'm the opposite of woke English already has a word for that- asleep
- Arch485 2y ago
  No, "asleep" is the opposite of "awake". Woke is a different construct. Maybe an antonym to "woke" could be "slept"?
  - 7bit 2y ago
    It couldn't, because that has a negative connotation in that context.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    “woke” the adjective not the past tense verb. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke For clarity, my suggestion was also sarcastic.
    - Arch485 2y ago
      As was I :)
  - SideQuark 2y ago
    “Woke” in this context is literally a synonym for “awake” [1]. It’s best to learn nuances of word usage before “correcting” others. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
tedunangst 2y ago
Who said anything about requiring suits?

I'm the opposite of woke but he's not wrong that suits are a western thing and and enforcing it as if it's universal is a bit pushy

by mam2 2y ago

I'm the opposite of woke but he's not wrong that suits are a western thing and and enforcing it as if it's universal is a bit pushy

motorest 2y ago

> suits are a western thing I think you're commenting out of ignorance. FIDE's dress code does accepts "national costumes", on par with suits and Bermuda shorts. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_... It's an arbitrary list of clothing items that is supposedly put together to "promote a good and positive image of chess", regardless of where you come from.

blagie 2y ago
"Business casual (European standards), which means long trousers or pants, shirt, jacket, with or without tie (no t-shirts, no polo, no jeans, no sports shoes or sneakers or slippers, no hats or caps (except for religious reasons) and the equivalent style of dress for women players. National costumes and team uniforms are allowed." It quite literally says "European standards." National costumes -- I don't know the context here -- usually means vetted traditional clothing (such as, for India, a sari, but not the much more common selwar suit). It also -- by definition -- excludes minority groups (for example, Inner Mongolia or Tibet in China, or the Kurds in Turkey). There's also the very practical matter that "minority groups" include neurodiversity too. The whole point is to judge people on their chess and not on their looks. It's the exact same issue as professional hairstyles or, before that, professional skin colors. A 1930-era US or German management consulting firm would obviously look worse to clients with a non-white consultant. There was an objective reason to discriminate in positions. That didn't make it right. In either case, if the goal of FIDE was to make money, discriminating would make complete business sense, regardless of ethical value. If the goal is to promote chess, people should be able to see themselves in the game, and participate regardless of how they choose to look. Back to the management consulting example, in 1930, a qualified black management consultant would serve the additional benefit of being an ambassador to and role model for their community.
lowbloodsugar 2y ago
So a USA player can wear blue jeans?

seattle_spring 2y ago

> I'm the opposite of woke What exactly do you think that word means?

griomnib 2y ago
I find people who use it in a derogatory don’t do much actual thinking to start with. The literal origin of its use in social justice realms was to put an emphasis and value on critical thinking. By pondering the nature of society one can be “awoken” to the deeper sociological forces which shape individual lives. I’ll freely admit the term has been perverted by a range of actors with motivations I disagree with. But the original meaning and intent is valuable: all of us live in a world of hidden boundaries and power structures, but seeing that requires thought. Many people don’t want to think for themselves, and they hate those that do.
- krapp 2y ago
  You aren't wrong, but to be entirely fair, the original meaning of "woke" came from the black activist community and referred to the hidden boundaries and power structures of systemic white supremacy, ignorance of which could directly threaten their lives. I think it's important to remember that specific context when talking about where "woke" as a concept comes from, its general acceptance within the leftist community has, unfortunately (and maybe inevitably,) come with a bit of whitewashing.
  - griomnib 2y ago
    Totally agree.
- codr7 2y ago
  That's far from the whole story though. Part of being woke is usually seeing others as asleep and not as enlightened, which means it's ok to lecture them to hell and back. There's a difference between thinking critically and looking for problems to feel superior.
  - 2y ago

fnordpiglet 2y ago

FWIW blue jeans are about as western (literally!) as you get.

_yb2s 2y ago

> I'm the opposite of woke English already has a word for that- asleep

Arch485 2y ago
No, "asleep" is the opposite of "awake". Woke is a different construct. Maybe an antonym to "woke" could be "slept"?
- 7bit 2y ago
  It couldn't, because that has a negative connotation in that context.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  “woke” the adjective not the past tense verb. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke For clarity, my suggestion was also sarcastic.
  - Arch485 2y ago
    As was I :)
- SideQuark 2y ago
  “Woke” in this context is literally a synonym for “awake” [1]. It’s best to learn nuances of word usage before “correcting” others. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

tedunangst 2y ago

Who said anything about requiring suits?