3 ms·

Since we're talking SSDs, I wonder if we could get some attention to the Phison E18 degradation issue [1]. Only one manufacturer, Kingston, has put out firmware

Since we're talking SSDs, I wonder if we could get some attention to the Phison E18 degradation issue [1]. Only one manufacturer, Kingston, has put out firmware containing Phison's fix, while the others just ignore it. A bunch of these drives with this controller were on sale during black Friday, so a lot more people are going to have problems in a month or so. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1f1piwf/psa_phison_e18_based_ssd_owners_update_your/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1f1piwf/psa_p...

userbinator 2y ago
That sounds like NAND degradation (retention failures) which can only be partially worked around in firmware (and causing more write cycles on already-marginal QLC). Unfortunately the real solution is "use better NAND", which is unlikely to happen unless enough people demand it.
- ciupicri 2y ago
  Kingston KC3000 supposedly uses Micron 176L TLC memory [1]. The Seagate Firecuda 530 datasheet clearly says "Built with a Seagate-validated E18 controller and the latest 3D TLC NAND". A review is more precise: "Phison PS5018-E18" & "Micron B47R 176-layer 3D TLC NAND" [2]. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kingston-kc3000-m2-ssd-review https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kingston-kc3000-m2-ssd-... [2]: https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/seagate-firecuda-530-2tb-ssd-review/all/1/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/se...
  - userbinator 2y ago
    B47R is indeed TLC, rated for only 1000 cycles (and 35k in SLC mode, at 1/3 the capacity.) There's also the question of whether this is "true" Micron NAND, or SpecTek which is basically Micron's rejects (and rated for even fewer cycles; only 300 in the case of their B16A.)
ciupicri 2y ago
Kingston doesn't seem to offer any support for Linux, so their new firmware is virtually non-existent to me. Why can't I just download the firmware and use standard nvme-cli tools to update the SSD, beats me. If Seagate (which by the way uses Phison E18 too) can do it, so can Kingston, Samsung, Crucial, Western Digital and many others. Even better would be use Linux Vendor Firmware Service (https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/).

userbinator 2y ago

That sounds like NAND degradation (retention failures) which can only be partially worked around in firmware (and causing more write cycles on already-marginal QLC). Unfortunately the real solution is "use better NAND", which is unlikely to happen unless enough people demand it.

ciupicri 2y ago
Kingston KC3000 supposedly uses Micron 176L TLC memory [1]. The Seagate Firecuda 530 datasheet clearly says "Built with a Seagate-validated E18 controller and the latest 3D TLC NAND". A review is more precise: "Phison PS5018-E18" & "Micron B47R 176-layer 3D TLC NAND" [2]. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kingston-kc3000-m2-ssd-review https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kingston-kc3000-m2-ssd-... [2]: https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/seagate-firecuda-530-2tb-ssd-review/all/1/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/se...
- userbinator 2y ago
  B47R is indeed TLC, rated for only 1000 cycles (and 35k in SLC mode, at 1/3 the capacity.) There's also the question of whether this is "true" Micron NAND, or SpecTek which is basically Micron's rejects (and rated for even fewer cycles; only 300 in the case of their B16A.)

ciupicri 2y ago

Kingston doesn't seem to offer any support for Linux, so their new firmware is virtually non-existent to me. Why can't I just download the firmware and use standard nvme-cli tools to update the SSD, beats me. If Seagate (which by the way uses Phison E18 too) can do it, so can Kingston, Samsung, Crucial, Western Digital and many others. Even better would be use Linux Vendor Firmware Service (https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/).