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What's your proposal?

by pas 2y ago

somenameforme 2y ago
Russia's paranoia of NATO was largely because they were being surrounded by military bases and missiles placed overtly within ranges that would greatly increase the chances/effect of a preemptive strike. Of course we kept expanding because each time Russia claimed something was a redline, they did nothing. Until they did. Though Ukraine is also particularly sensitive for them both from a cultural perspective and a strategic one. Bringing them into NATO was something that they saw as comparable to how the US might see if China or Russia formed a military alliance with Mexico, set up military bases there, and let alone then inevitably deploying nuclear weapons there. Suddenly the rhetoric about countries being free to pick their own alliances would end up as yet another mockery of the "rules based order."* So the solution was simple - don't bring Ukraine into NATO. Hundreds of thousands more Ukrainians would be alive, EU economies would be far stronger, and Russia might even be cooled back into its early trajectories. At one point in time, Putin was even enquiring about Russia joining NATO! This isn't an enemy that we need to have, but we need to be willing to engage in mutual compromise instead of trying to operate as a global hegemon.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  They were being surrounded by military bases and missiles placed overtly within ranges that would greatly increase the chances/effect of a preemptive strike. Can you point to where these "bases" were, and where these missiles were being "overtly placed"? Of course you can't, because absolutely nothing of the sort was happening. Western nukes haven't budged from their placements in the 1980s. No new bases were being built that affected first-strike capability in any way. The West was never going to attack or blackmail Russia, and not even its own regime believes it was ever going to. There's simply no truth in the statement you just mindlessly parroted. It's just a soundbite that somebody came up with, to mess with your head.
- vpribish 2y ago
  Lay it on thicker, I can still see some daylight. Hey kids, look how the Russian propaganda works : they are the victims! And the mean Ukrainians were going to invade them with a first strike! This is gaslighting and victim blaming.

What's your proposal?

by pas 2y ago

What's your proposal?

Russia's paranoia of NATO was largely because they were being surrounded by military bases and missiles placed overtly within ranges that would greatly increase the chances/effect of a preemptive strike. Of course we kept expanding because each time Russia claimed something was a redline, they did nothing. Until they did. Though Ukraine is also particularly sensitive for them both from a cultural perspective and a strategic one. Bringing them into NATO was something that they saw as comparable to how the US might see if China or Russia formed a military alliance with Mexico, set up military bases there, and let alone then inevitably deploying nuclear weapons there. Suddenly the rhetoric about countries being free to pick their own alliances would end up as yet another mockery of the "rules based order."* So the solution was simple - don't bring Ukraine into NATO. Hundreds of thousands more Ukrainians would be alive, EU economies would be far stronger, and Russia might even be cooled back into its early trajectories. At one point in time, Putin was even enquiring about Russia joining NATO! This isn't an enemy that we need to have, but we need to be willing to engage in mutual compromise instead of trying to operate as a global hegemon.

aguaviva 2y ago
They were being surrounded by military bases and missiles placed overtly within ranges that would greatly increase the chances/effect of a preemptive strike. Can you point to where these "bases" were, and where these missiles were being "overtly placed"? Of course you can't, because absolutely nothing of the sort was happening. Western nukes haven't budged from their placements in the 1980s. No new bases were being built that affected first-strike capability in any way. The West was never going to attack or blackmail Russia, and not even its own regime believes it was ever going to. There's simply no truth in the statement you just mindlessly parroted. It's just a soundbite that somebody came up with, to mess with your head.
vpribish 2y ago
Lay it on thicker, I can still see some daylight. Hey kids, look how the Russian propaganda works : they are the victims! And the mean Ukrainians were going to invade them with a first strike! This is gaslighting and victim blaming.