5 ms·

> Russia has been very clear about their goals. They want to reestablish the Soviet borders Do you have an actual source for that extraordinary claim?

mola 2y ago
Russia under the tzar was imperialistic, Russia under communism was imperialistic, why is it extraordinary to believe Russia under Putin is imperialistic? Especially given what it did in Georgia Ukrain and Belarus etc.
- lionkor 2y ago
  There is a massive difference between belief and fact, and I would expect someone on this forum to know that. If you don't have a source, and you can't find one, then please make clear in your comment that that's your belief, not a fact. This goes for the OP, too
  - nobunaga 2y ago
    Comrad, I would expect you on this forum to not make it so obvious that you are the source of misinformation. Please, make it less obvious
    - lionkor 2y ago
      I'm German, please don't try to belittle someone's point just because you believe them to be from someplace, that's not how it works on this forum. Please go read the guidelines linked at the bottom of the page. Specifically, respond to the strongest possible interpretation of what someone says, not the weakest.
      - nobunaga 2y ago
        And im from Mars. Believe me
  - The_Colonel 2y ago
    Definition of imperialism: > Imperialism is the maintaining and extending of power over foreign nations, particularly through expansionism, employing both hard power (military and economic power) and soft power (diplomatic power and cultural imperialism). Imperialism focuses on establishing or maintaining hegemony and a more or less formal empire. Russia fits the bill very well.
    - lionkor 2y ago
      US, too, what's the point?
      - The_Colonel 2y ago
        You disputed the fact Russia is imperialistic.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    That Russia is an empire is obvious when you look at the list of languages spoken on its territory, and why it has all those languages.
singlow 2y ago
These articles both demonstrate Putin's desire to restore historical Russian boundaries. He usually references the Empire rather than the USSR. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606
- ekianjo 2y ago
  It's a long piece of text. Where do you see, in particular, an actual reference to restoring the previous USSR borders?
  - singlow 2y ago
    > Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years. On the face of it, he was at war with Sweden taking something away from it… He was not taking away anything, he was returning. This is how it was. The areas around Lake Ladoga, where St Petersburg was founded. When he founded the new capital, none of the European countries recognised this territory as part of Russia; everyone recognised it as part of Sweden. However, from time immemorial, the Slavs lived there along with the Finno-Ugric peoples, and this territory was under Russia’s control. The same is true of the western direction, Narva and his first campaigns. Why would he go there? He was returning and reinforcing, that is what he was doing. > Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well. And if we operate on the premise that these basic values constitute the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in achieving our goals. Returning and reinforcing means restoring the USSR or Russian Empire's territory to Russia.
Terr_ 2y ago
Your mean strong evidence like if Russia started invading and annexing its former-USSR neighbors? Or perhaps you're confusing "clear" with "explicit": Consider a mob-boss surrounded by associates, casually observing into the air that "Example Ezio needs a fitting for concrete overshoes since I expect he'll be sleeping with the fishes."
- ekianjo 2y ago
  Is Russia invading Poland and the Baltic states? Or did I miss the news?
  - fulafel 2y ago
    Nitpick: The Baltics were part of USSR, Poland was not.
  - yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
    Yes. Yes they are. They absolutely want to test how much they can get away with to undermine Article 5. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/estonia-says-russia-removed-navigation-buoys-border-river-2024-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/estonia-says-russia-rem...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    > > invading and annexing its former-USSR neighbors > Is Russia invading Poland and the Baltic states? What goalpost-moving nonsense is this!? Why narrow it to those other areas while pretending the ongoing invasion of Ukraine doesn't exist, or forgetting the 2008 invasion of Georgia? Must Russia attempt to attack or puppet every discrete former-USSR holding including Takijistan before you'll finally admit that Putin has revanchist dreams?
  - the_why_of_y 2y ago
    You did miss this Rossiya 1 broadcast: https://www.thesun.ie/news/8513264/russian-state-tv-discusses-invasion-seizing-baltic-states/ https://www.thesun.ie/news/8513264/russian-state-tv-discusse...
realusername 2y ago
They openly say it on their own state TV. They don't hide it in any way.
fi358 2y ago
It seems that Putin thinks Russia is able to take Belarusia by coercion: Putin’s plan for a new Russian Empire includes both Ukraine and Belarus https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-plan-for-a-new-russian-empire-includes-both-ukraine-and-belarus/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-pl...
- lottin 2y ago
  Belarus is already pretty much a Russian puppet state.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  [flagged]
mopsi 2y ago
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1871139065103585621 https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1871139065103585621 Such extremely hostile rhetoric is Russian mainstream.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  You can have extremely hostile rhetoric from the neocons in the US, that does not mean it is official government policy. So you have a statement of Putin to showcase instead?
  - mopsi 2y ago
    There's a key difference: Russia does not have freedom of the press nor freedom of speech. TV channels and newspapers get talking points from their coordinator in the presidential administration in the Kremlin and then do their best to hit the desired notes, or face takeover or closure. No independent mass media exists in Russia anymore. The Kremlin serves as the editorial board for every major outlet. This is the Russian government speaking. Russian Media Monitor channel on Youtube maintains a collection of that speech. One of the most recent examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hULOZDqxv1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hULOZDqxv1Q In this clip from a prime-time TV show, propagandists keep repeating how they need to nuclear blackmail Trump into handing Europe over to Russia, with "Russian troops in Berlin, Paris and Lisbon" (02:12). Russian outlets hammer garbage like this into their population every single day, such rhetoric is everywhere. And words certainly lead to actions: when Russian POWs captured in Ukraine are asked what the hell they are doing in Ukraine, they can't come up with anything and fall back to repeating the same things word for word as if the were robots.

mola 2y ago

Russia under the tzar was imperialistic, Russia under communism was imperialistic, why is it extraordinary to believe Russia under Putin is imperialistic? Especially given what it did in Georgia Ukrain and Belarus etc.

lionkor 2y ago
There is a massive difference between belief and fact, and I would expect someone on this forum to know that. If you don't have a source, and you can't find one, then please make clear in your comment that that's your belief, not a fact. This goes for the OP, too
- nobunaga 2y ago
  Comrad, I would expect you on this forum to not make it so obvious that you are the source of misinformation. Please, make it less obvious
  - lionkor 2y ago
    I'm German, please don't try to belittle someone's point just because you believe them to be from someplace, that's not how it works on this forum. Please go read the guidelines linked at the bottom of the page. Specifically, respond to the strongest possible interpretation of what someone says, not the weakest.
    - nobunaga 2y ago
      And im from Mars. Believe me
- The_Colonel 2y ago
  Definition of imperialism: > Imperialism is the maintaining and extending of power over foreign nations, particularly through expansionism, employing both hard power (military and economic power) and soft power (diplomatic power and cultural imperialism). Imperialism focuses on establishing or maintaining hegemony and a more or less formal empire. Russia fits the bill very well.
  - lionkor 2y ago
    US, too, what's the point?
    - The_Colonel 2y ago
      You disputed the fact Russia is imperialistic.
- int_19h 2y ago
  That Russia is an empire is obvious when you look at the list of languages spoken on its territory, and why it has all those languages.

singlow 2y ago

These articles both demonstrate Putin's desire to restore historical Russian boundaries. He usually references the Empire rather than the USSR. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606

ekianjo 2y ago
It's a long piece of text. Where do you see, in particular, an actual reference to restoring the previous USSR borders?
- singlow 2y ago
  > Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years. On the face of it, he was at war with Sweden taking something away from it… He was not taking away anything, he was returning. This is how it was. The areas around Lake Ladoga, where St Petersburg was founded. When he founded the new capital, none of the European countries recognised this territory as part of Russia; everyone recognised it as part of Sweden. However, from time immemorial, the Slavs lived there along with the Finno-Ugric peoples, and this territory was under Russia’s control. The same is true of the western direction, Narva and his first campaigns. Why would he go there? He was returning and reinforcing, that is what he was doing. > Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well. And if we operate on the premise that these basic values constitute the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in achieving our goals. Returning and reinforcing means restoring the USSR or Russian Empire's territory to Russia.

Terr_ 2y ago

Your mean strong evidence like if Russia started invading and annexing its former-USSR neighbors? Or perhaps you're confusing "clear" with "explicit": Consider a mob-boss surrounded by associates, casually observing into the air that "Example Ezio needs a fitting for concrete overshoes since I expect he'll be sleeping with the fishes."

ekianjo 2y ago
Is Russia invading Poland and the Baltic states? Or did I miss the news?
- fulafel 2y ago
  Nitpick: The Baltics were part of USSR, Poland was not.
- yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
  Yes. Yes they are. They absolutely want to test how much they can get away with to undermine Article 5. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/estonia-says-russia-removed-navigation-buoys-border-river-2024-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/estonia-says-russia-rem...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > > invading and annexing its former-USSR neighbors > Is Russia invading Poland and the Baltic states? What goalpost-moving nonsense is this!? Why narrow it to those other areas while pretending the ongoing invasion of Ukraine doesn't exist, or forgetting the 2008 invasion of Georgia? Must Russia attempt to attack or puppet every discrete former-USSR holding including Takijistan before you'll finally admit that Putin has revanchist dreams?
- the_why_of_y 2y ago
  You did miss this Rossiya 1 broadcast: https://www.thesun.ie/news/8513264/russian-state-tv-discusses-invasion-seizing-baltic-states/ https://www.thesun.ie/news/8513264/russian-state-tv-discusse...

realusername 2y ago

They openly say it on their own state TV. They don't hide it in any way.

fi358 2y ago

It seems that Putin thinks Russia is able to take Belarusia by coercion: Putin’s plan for a new Russian Empire includes both Ukraine and Belarus https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-plan-for-a-new-russian-empire-includes-both-ukraine-and-belarus/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-pl...

lottin 2y ago
Belarus is already pretty much a Russian puppet state.
ekianjo 2y ago
[flagged]

mopsi 2y ago

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1871139065103585621 https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1871139065103585621 Such extremely hostile rhetoric is Russian mainstream.

ekianjo 2y ago
You can have extremely hostile rhetoric from the neocons in the US, that does not mean it is official government policy. So you have a statement of Putin to showcase instead?
- mopsi 2y ago
  There's a key difference: Russia does not have freedom of the press nor freedom of speech. TV channels and newspapers get talking points from their coordinator in the presidential administration in the Kremlin and then do their best to hit the desired notes, or face takeover or closure. No independent mass media exists in Russia anymore. The Kremlin serves as the editorial board for every major outlet. This is the Russian government speaking. Russian Media Monitor channel on Youtube maintains a collection of that speech. One of the most recent examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hULOZDqxv1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hULOZDqxv1Q In this clip from a prime-time TV show, propagandists keep repeating how they need to nuclear blackmail Trump into handing Europe over to Russia, with "Russian troops in Berlin, Paris and Lisbon" (02:12). Russian outlets hammer garbage like this into their population every single day, such rhetoric is everywhere. And words certainly lead to actions: when Russian POWs captured in Ukraine are asked what the hell they are doing in Ukraine, they can't come up with anything and fall back to repeating the same things word for word as if the were robots.