4 ms·

I'm not sure i believe that bit. If you can lift a flow of water from one level to a higher level without an input of energy, you have a perpetual motion machin

by twic 2y ago

I'm not sure i believe that bit. If you can lift a flow of water from one level to a higher level without an input of energy, you have a perpetual motion machine. And those aren't allowed. I assume that what happened here is that some fraction of the input flow was drained to a lower level, and the liberated potential energy captured and used to lift the remaining fraction to a higher level. That's not what's shown in the video, though. There's a description starting on page 369 here, although it's not completely clear how it works (the author is an archaeologist, not an engineer!): https://sci-hub.se/10.1093/jis/etw016 https://sci-hub.se/10.1093/jis/etw016 Subsequent prior art (IYSWIM) is the hydraulic ram, which does this a different way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

baybal2 2y ago
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petermcneeley 2y ago
In the pdf you provided a significant portion of the water appears to drain. So the energy equation might work out.
roenxi 2y ago
Indeed. Fascinating puzzle. Without an external source of energy there must be a volume of water leaving the system that doesn't make it to the higher level. If it was possible to partition the water and the energy but not with the same partition (ie, 40% of the water gets 80% of the energy, 60% of the water the other 20%) then the system would be thermodynamically legal. So maybe the vortex was to create a high- and low- pressure mass of water. This mechanism is ingenious in the best meaning of the word.
stavros 2y ago
I wonder if the extra energy is the kinetic energy (the water rushes into the cistern to create the vortex, but then is still when it's raised).
zeristor 2y ago
The first video I saw was a YouTube short purely on this, I had thought it was just taken from this main video. My understanding was that the water was aerated, and so less dense meaning it could rise higher. Værsgo: https://youtube.com/shorts/BkVUQQnfrDg https://youtube.com/shorts/BkVUQQnfrDg Ideally I’d like to see an experiment to explicitly confirm it.

by twic 2y ago

baybal2 2y ago

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petermcneeley 2y ago

In the pdf you provided a significant portion of the water appears to drain. So the energy equation might work out.

roenxi 2y ago

Indeed. Fascinating puzzle. Without an external source of energy there must be a volume of water leaving the system that doesn't make it to the higher level. If it was possible to partition the water and the energy but not with the same partition (ie, 40% of the water gets 80% of the energy, 60% of the water the other 20%) then the system would be thermodynamically legal. So maybe the vortex was to create a high- and low- pressure mass of water. This mechanism is ingenious in the best meaning of the word.

stavros 2y ago

I wonder if the extra energy is the kinetic energy (the water rushes into the cistern to create the vortex, but then is still when it's raised).

zeristor 2y ago

The first video I saw was a YouTube short purely on this, I had thought it was just taken from this main video. My understanding was that the water was aerated, and so less dense meaning it could rise higher. Værsgo: https://youtube.com/shorts/BkVUQQnfrDg https://youtube.com/shorts/BkVUQQnfrDg Ideally I’d like to see an experiment to explicitly confirm it.