6 ms·

My solution: Buy an old car...

by rrr_oh_man 2y ago

whimsicalism 2y ago
modern cars are unfortunately much safer
- martin_ 2y ago
  I for one am grateful for that fact ;)
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  To a large extent this depends on the car and depends what you mean by "old". Modern cars vs. 1970s cars? The older cars are completely hopeless. Modern cars vs. 15 year old cars? The older cars may have had things like ABS and side airbags as options rather than as standard, but you can find one that has them that doesn't have cellular telemetry.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    Cars from 2010 with optional ABS? Maybe domestic third world sub-$10k tuna cans? But the larger point is definitely true.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      Apparently the 2010 Chevy Cobalt was available without ABS. Definitely in the minority even 15 years ago though.
      - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
        Nice find! Although, it seems to have been only available/produced in Brazil, Columbia, Russia, Uzbekistan, which I'd argue is in line with my original sentiment.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        That was the second generation which started in the 2011 model year. The first gen Cobalt was made and sold in the US into 2010 (the last year the first gen was made anywhere). That was also the last full year a car without ABS could be made in the US, since 2011 is when it became required by law.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Hmm yeah but anything over 15 years isn't really viable as a daily driver anyway. Then you're getting to the point where you start having serious issues every year at the mandatory mechanical check. Then you're getting into old-timer drive once on a sunny day territory. I always bought medium sized cars at 10 years when they're already only a grand or two. The smallest ones are made so cheaply that they're already too tired at this age and strangely enough they're more expensive due to the lower road tax. So more people want them. And then I used to drive them till the maintenance becomes too expensive, for 5 or 6 years or so. And just scrap them then. I guess if I still owned a car I could still do this for a good while without having to get spyware. But not too long.
    - canarycari0 2y ago
      >Then you're getting to the point where you start having serious issues every year at the mandatory mechanical check More like every couple months on the road, from my experience in having driven one. Just this year here are couple of things that have occurred: >glowplugs burnt out >air-mass sensor failure >faulty abs-sensor >fuel nozzle malfunction >brake failure >engine back support failure >short circuit after worn-out manufacturer divider causing massive sparking, heating and a drained battery Some additional fixes identified recently not yet fixed: >faulty brake booster >moisture buildup(?)in door mechanisms leading to it sometimes not opening from inside >rust buildup in some parts, needs replacing before reaching important bits >transient misfire/spray/clog on acceleration leading to computer shutting off engine power
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Yeah at that point I'd just go for another 10 year old car. My last car was a Volvo S40, had really nice leather interior, nearly full option and cost me €2000. I only had a few brake pads an a broken trunk cable to deal with (super common issue on this model), the latter I did myself for €40 in parts. Ran great for years. But yeah there's an element of luck also. My previous car was an Octavia, that had more issues. Electric window broke and I replaced it all myself. But it was a pretty nasty job. Eventually the gearbox started whining and when I brought it to the shop it basically blew up. But it had served me 5 years at that point. Cost me €1200 to buy.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    I think there have been considerable improvements in basic things like frame materials & airbag placement in the last 15 years. Certainly in the last 20.
  - ta12653421 2y ago
    IIRC, there is for Europe a directive which requires 60/65% (?) of the force within a crash must be absorbed by the frame/chassis. It came into action around 2015, IIRC.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      That's when it became mandatory on all vehicles, not when the first vehicle to satisfy the standard became available on the market. As another example, side impact airbags have been mandatory in the US since 2013, but the Volvo 850 had them in 1995 and they were present on something like half of new cars a decade before they were mandatory and >97% of new cars three years before the mandate.
- Klonoar 2y ago
  There are “modern” cars (~5-10 years old) that fit most of the modern safety standards and are effectively not transmitting things due to 3G no longer being much of a thing, coupled with automakers being glacially slow at replacing certain electronic components.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    definitely
chgs 2y ago
And in 10 years time what’s your solution?
- Lio 2y ago
  Well my 10 year old car had 3G, which is now defunct. I'd hope in 10 years 4G and maybe be 5G would also be defunct with their networks turned off.

My solution: Buy an old car...

whimsicalism 2y ago

modern cars are unfortunately much safer

martin_ 2y ago
I for one am grateful for that fact ;)
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
To a large extent this depends on the car and depends what you mean by "old". Modern cars vs. 1970s cars? The older cars are completely hopeless. Modern cars vs. 15 year old cars? The older cars may have had things like ABS and side airbags as options rather than as standard, but you can find one that has them that doesn't have cellular telemetry.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  Cars from 2010 with optional ABS? Maybe domestic third world sub-$10k tuna cans? But the larger point is definitely true.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    Apparently the 2010 Chevy Cobalt was available without ABS. Definitely in the minority even 15 years ago though.
    - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
      Nice find! Although, it seems to have been only available/produced in Brazil, Columbia, Russia, Uzbekistan, which I'd argue is in line with my original sentiment.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        That was the second generation which started in the 2011 model year. The first gen Cobalt was made and sold in the US into 2010 (the last year the first gen was made anywhere). That was also the last full year a car without ABS could be made in the US, since 2011 is when it became required by law.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Hmm yeah but anything over 15 years isn't really viable as a daily driver anyway. Then you're getting to the point where you start having serious issues every year at the mandatory mechanical check. Then you're getting into old-timer drive once on a sunny day territory. I always bought medium sized cars at 10 years when they're already only a grand or two. The smallest ones are made so cheaply that they're already too tired at this age and strangely enough they're more expensive due to the lower road tax. So more people want them. And then I used to drive them till the maintenance becomes too expensive, for 5 or 6 years or so. And just scrap them then. I guess if I still owned a car I could still do this for a good while without having to get spyware. But not too long.
  - canarycari0 2y ago
    >Then you're getting to the point where you start having serious issues every year at the mandatory mechanical check More like every couple months on the road, from my experience in having driven one. Just this year here are couple of things that have occurred: >glowplugs burnt out >air-mass sensor failure >faulty abs-sensor >fuel nozzle malfunction >brake failure >engine back support failure >short circuit after worn-out manufacturer divider causing massive sparking, heating and a drained battery Some additional fixes identified recently not yet fixed: >faulty brake booster >moisture buildup(?)in door mechanisms leading to it sometimes not opening from inside >rust buildup in some parts, needs replacing before reaching important bits >transient misfire/spray/clog on acceleration leading to computer shutting off engine power
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Yeah at that point I'd just go for another 10 year old car. My last car was a Volvo S40, had really nice leather interior, nearly full option and cost me €2000. I only had a few brake pads an a broken trunk cable to deal with (super common issue on this model), the latter I did myself for €40 in parts. Ran great for years. But yeah there's an element of luck also. My previous car was an Octavia, that had more issues. Electric window broke and I replaced it all myself. But it was a pretty nasty job. Eventually the gearbox started whining and when I brought it to the shop it basically blew up. But it had served me 5 years at that point. Cost me €1200 to buy.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  I think there have been considerable improvements in basic things like frame materials & airbag placement in the last 15 years. Certainly in the last 20.
- ta12653421 2y ago
  IIRC, there is for Europe a directive which requires 60/65% (?) of the force within a crash must be absorbed by the frame/chassis. It came into action around 2015, IIRC.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    That's when it became mandatory on all vehicles, not when the first vehicle to satisfy the standard became available on the market. As another example, side impact airbags have been mandatory in the US since 2013, but the Volvo 850 had them in 1995 and they were present on something like half of new cars a decade before they were mandatory and >97% of new cars three years before the mandate.
Klonoar 2y ago
There are “modern” cars (~5-10 years old) that fit most of the modern safety standards and are effectively not transmitting things due to 3G no longer being much of a thing, coupled with automakers being glacially slow at replacing certain electronic components.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  definitely

chgs 2y ago

And in 10 years time what’s your solution?

Lio 2y ago
Well my 10 year old car had 3G, which is now defunct. I'd hope in 10 years 4G and maybe be 5G would also be defunct with their networks turned off.