7 ms·

There are significant downsides to the digitalization of travel documents. The biggest one I can think of is ownership - the UK is moving to an entirely digital

There are significant downsides to the digitalization of travel documents. The biggest one I can think of is ownership - the UK is moving to an entirely digital visa system and bringing in an ESTA style system called ETA for visa free countries. Unfortunately this means that residency cards for noncitizens are being phased out. This means that when the Home Office messes up and accidentally deletes your immigration status, or you are at an airport with no internet access, you have no evidence whatsoever of what status you hold. It also means you will no longer be in possession of any records that might be useful years in the future when the current database containing immigration records will likely have been replaced. It’s much easier to keep a piece of paper around for 30+ years than it is to make sure a digital record doesn’t rot in that time. I feel strongly that any future digital travel credentials that are offered by governments should be able to operate entirely offline, and provide records that can be retained by the data subject. That means that revocation is harder, but IMO that’s a tradeoff that is worth making to avoid another Windrush scandal. This has already become a pain when dealing with countries that don’t stamp passports, because when you need to apply for something that asks for your travel history over the past 10 years, you might not have any records anymore.

zahlman 2y ago
For me, this is a human rights issue. Article 13 of https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma... is not contingent upon ownership of a smartphone.
- noodlesUK 2y ago
  I do agree that conceptually the government shouldn’t force you to buy things from private companies to exercise your rights. However, you already have to buy a passport (often for a lot of money) in most countries, so pragmatically, I don’t know that it’s a hugely different thing to ask. However, there’s a big difference for children, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Immigration tends to stretch human rights though. It costs >10k gbp in visa fees for a British citizen to return to the UK with a non-UK spouse from arrival to settlement. You also need to be earning a fair bit of money, and not have the British partner as a stay at home spouse. I would say that frustrates article 8 ECHR, but the government disagrees. There are countless examples of similar issues re international travel and immigration. Smartphone ownership is simply one of many.
  - rcbdev 2y ago
    Issuing a passport by the Austrian State Printing House costs 60€. Show me a phone with decent battery life that has comparable costs.
  - shakna 2y ago
    If you are convicted of hacking in Australia, you may be subject to a lifetime order that prevents you from owning a smartphone. However, once your parole is done, you do have freedom of travel. Ownership of a device simply is not a guarantee you can rest on - even before you get to those who may not be able to use them.
    - noodlesUK 2y ago
      I completely agree. There are a variety of reasons why a person might be digitally excluded. Governments need to make sure that people can access the services that they’re entitled to through a wide variety of channels, including physically visiting an office if necessary. Though I will say, at a practical level, you will find that it’s increasingly difficult for people with criminal records to travel internationally (due to entry requirements).
      - sudoshred 2y ago
        Entitled is a strong word, eligible is maybe more precise.
        jolmg 2y ago
        "They're entitled to" or "Have a right to" seem more precise than "eligible". At least in my country, I think everyone (citizens) has the right to a passport. It's not something you need to be chosen for as "eligible" would imply.
        sudoshred 2y ago
        My reasoning is that eligibility is a prerequisite for entitlement. I believe eligible is defined as meeting some criteria for, not necessarily being chosen though that could be a criteria. I agree they have a right to, however entitlement implies to me that the person has invested some time and resources in asserting their right. Whereas eligible means only that the right to something exists, if it were to be asserted.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  The UDHR is more a list of (short descriptions of) ideals than exact wording of the law to get there or when other things take priority. The 2 sentences making up that article don't really live up to that level of useful detail.
- rkagerer 2y ago
  Especially when these days it's near impossible to truly own your own smartphone.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - steelframe 2y ago
    I've simply been buying Pixel phones and using the GrapheneOS web installation tool. It holds your hand through unlocking the bootloader and flashing the new image on, and it always works without a hitch. Super-easy and reliable. I suppose you still don't "own" the radio firmware, but at least you can have a perfectly functional Google-free Android phone that way. I suppose the real trouble comes from needing to install software from the Google Play store in order to travel. If you feel you need to do that you can create a new Google account just for that installation of the Google Play from the phone itself and then never give it any of your personal information such as a payment method. GrapheneOS claims to do a pretty good job of sandboxing Google Play components. Regardless I agree with others here who think it should always be possible to travel without any electronics on your person.
    - Freak_NL 2y ago
      I use GrapheneOS, and wouldn't have it any other way, but its prolonged existence depends on Google not making any asshole moves in their next Pixels, and on the (highly appreciated) efforts of a few dedicated individuals. And like Linux on the desktop: it offers a better experience for everyone who either has the knowledge to step off the beaten path, or has someone who supports them. But that is just a few percent of people. The rest gets what market forces dictate.
    - rkagerer 2y ago
      Chris Woope nicely summarizes the main anti-user features I'd like to surgically remove from GrapheneOS: https://github.com/chriswoope/resign-android-image?tab=readme-ov-file#adb-root https://github.com/chriswoope/resign-android-image?tab=readm... I just wish there were a supported and easier way of achieving this. Would love any suggestions.
- highcountess 2y ago
  [flagged]
hilux 2y ago
> That means that revocation is harder, but IMO that’s a tradeoff that is worth making to avoid another Windrush scandal. I don't think the UK (Or US, other other European) government are too torn up about the possibility of another Windrush scandal. But I generally agree with you. A physical passport offers a degree of psychological and real "security" that the promise of some cloud-hosted credential absolutely does not. As a minor aside, I (US citizen) was once able to able to enter the US (at Toronto Pearson airport) despite having left my passport in some hotel. I just told the stern American guy "Yo soy American." Apparently they have ways of telling.
rachelgunn 2y ago
[dead]
frutiger 2y ago
> I feel strongly that any future digital travel credentials that are offered by governments should be able to operate entirely offline How offline is the current system today, where officers swipe/scan our paper passports into a machine?
- noodlesUK 2y ago
  With the current system, the passport chip can be validated offline if you have the CAs cached. If your computer is completely dead, you can look at the documents under a UV light and verify authenticity the old fashioned way. You could definitely design something that was verifiable offline using phones, but you’d be harder pressed to have it verifiable without any tech whatsoever.
  - ksec 2y ago
    Exactly this when I said in another comment I want both. The old physical protection of UV light and verify authenticity the old fashioned way. It doesn't even need a stamp but a physical thing that prove my identity I can own. Not another number in the system. This is the same thing I am against a cashless society where the society no longer accept physical cash. And in 2012, and later 2014 when Apple Pay was introduced all the way to 2017, 99% of HN were in support of getting rid of physical cash.
    - ddingus 2y ago
      Paper has no downtime. In times of disaster, the people welding paper along with the people who can trade on their street cred, familiar friends, family, will get stuff, do necessary business. Everyone else will be essentially panhandling. Mind you, not a damn thing wrong with panhandling. That is not a crime. My point is to avoid having to do that where possible and practical.
- ivanbalepin 2y ago
  but that is not my problem my passport has been through a washing machine accidentally and i can still present it in the remotest of countries no matter the internet or whatever, and it works in the US, yes they are switching to face recognition and often they barely even look at the passport anymore. I enjoy the convenience of that, but i don't wish to share this data with all the countries in the world, nor to be on the hook for having a connected device everywhere in the world for basic movements.
rkagerer 2y ago
Transparency is another important one. One reason I dislike such digital ID schemes because I can't actually tell what information (or metadata) is being forked over. Even if it does purport to show me, I'm just supposed to trust what it says? No thank you. A piece of paper provides a common format that's easy for both me and the official inspecting it to understand.
- pxeboot 2y ago
  Passports have had NFC chips with the potential to store additional data for at least the past 10 years.
  - bruce511 2y ago
    Not to mention the Passport Number which links the passport to databases of other information. Like the information on my visa application, or the fingerprints collected at that time, or my travel history, hotel stays, and so on. Data does not have your be "in the passport" to follow me around.
- ascorbic 2y ago
  What do you think happens when passport control scans your passport? The fact that the identifier is a paper document vs a digital token will make zero difference to the data that they track. It's linked to innumerable national and international databases which they will be tracking. Your privacy is basically zero when you cross borders.
  - mcfedr 2y ago
    The difference is when computer says no, you can show that computer is wrong
    - henearkr 2y ago
      No, because the fake passeport detection is done by checking the database anyway. Honestly I don't see any other way. Else it becomes a paradise for forgery.
Xen9 2y ago
Most comment here are not related to the problem, which is your interest & my interest & interest of 98% of HN others at least conflicting with the interest of those who control how humans vote. We know how things ought to be if everyone wanted them to be good for most humans. None of this discussion will however convince anyone to work more altruistically in reality. Those who control the public opinion know that there's some opposition who confuses the problems with the conflict. They laugh since no one who thinks legislation like in the link would be generally bad can do anything. The ignorant will vote what the Orwellianishly-named "smartphone" will command them. In the next five years, it's likely the option to stab the kings will be for the first time removed, since robotic militias will mean no insurance CEO can simply be shot. This means there will be zero limits to what cruelty they'll do you, since no matter how torturous it gets you'll be unable to even violently resist this. You'll have no democratic mouth, but you must scream. Completes cyberpunkization well. --- Aside: US drones + US satellites that enable global connectivity of drones was a rather obvious consequence of Starlink ~4 years ago. If they really want some person, they now can search most of Earth in few hours with the drones + computer vision, and soon with land robots, all connected through Starlink (starshield to use the euphemism). The irony is how this at the same time solves the connectivity problem.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Who are "those who control the public opinion"?
  - Xen9 2y ago
    In case I did, I would make sure I don't get pinpointed to, but in the US perhaps look at CFR / state department veterans & advertising corporations' stockholders & Google. In Europe traditional news sources there got economically slaughtered & replaced by few big online 1995-2005. This qas a consequence 1970s & 1980s academic networks working closely with US on web, and US then doing what it did with Google. If you can influence what ends up in the social media feed of those deciding about university curriculums and/or most politicians, that's quite powerful also. In Russia & China, there seems to be less hidden, less culture of valuing "free media." --- That public opinion "matters" but gets shaped is very plausible if you consider that most of history it didn't matter unless the public got very angry. Century of Self describes the process before Zuboff. One might argue that control of public opinion was originally more psychoanalytic idea, and then became more Skinnerian with computers.
pixelesque 2y ago
As a Brit with NZ permanent residency, there hasn't been residency stickers in passports for NZ residency for years now, so the only thing I have is a number and a PDF I can print out...
OJFord 2y ago
> the UK is moving to an entirely digital visa system and bringing in an ESTA style system called ETA for visa free countries. Canada, at least, already uses an ETA system called exactly that (or I guess TAE in French), so that probably had greater influence than the US ESTA.
- noodlesUK 2y ago
  Yes, and so do NZ and Australia. I actually think the biggest influencer is probably EITAS, which is the same thing for the Schengen area (yet to come into force). It’s a part of a wider trend going forward. I will say the UK/EU systems are fairly unique in that they aren’t excluding each other. Canadians don’t need ESTAs nor do Americans need Canadian ETAs
_l219 2y ago
I for one am really worried about the UK Digital Visa system. There are just so many ways it can break down Airport WiFi - people can easily run deauth with aircrack-ng. Email server might be down Phone out of battery Etc
- daveoc64 2y ago
  It's not digital in the sense that you need to show it on your device. It's digital in the sense that it's electronically stored against your passport number, and the UK Border Force can see it just by scanning your passport.
makeitdouble 2y ago
Those are all valid concerns. Then, the digital passport's ship has already sailed for better or for worse, and all these questions are solved in other ways. > when the Home Office messes up and accidentally deletes your immigration status You're toast either way, because it will be checked at the airport. You'll have to deal with the immigration officer and have them do something, because you won't go very far with just a paper that will be checked against the backend. In my experience it has already been the case for a while now. You still better have the reference paper that will help identify your visa procedure, dates etc. But it's already just a key to the info in the DB. > you will no longer be in possession of any records Print out the papers and keep track of the important pieces. It's the same for everything else in your life, including tax documents, birth certificates etc. Even in the olden days, the papers you had only had value against the agency's record that could prove their validity. If you had to prove residency in some specific period, having a stamp on your passport would mean very little if the agency denied having any records of it. So it's exactly the same weight as if you printed out a certificate while the DB blew out and no data about it are left. PS: I think in previous time people were also so much more lenient. It wasn't much a question of physical papers or not, and more on how much few people cared if your info was valid or not. I had an error in my name in many official documents, and while people noticed it, a simple "they typed it wrong" explanation was enough in 99% situations.
- lathiat 2y ago
  It's getting hard to even take printing stuff for granted. It's getting harder and harder on iOS just to arbitrarily copy and paste text from many apps - can't even copy the title of a YouTube video last time I tried. This mostly just worked on PC. It hurts me. Everything going so far backwards. At least once a week I have to screenshot something on iOS and use the new Photo OCR feature to copy and paste it out of the image. I wish I was joking.
- noodlesUK 2y ago
  If you have records of your own and pointers to other organizations contemporaneous records, you may have an opportunity to appeal if your DB record is lost. The home office rather notoriously destroyed/never kept its own records of arrivals of commonwealth citizens, which was one of the steps leading to the Windrush scandal. Many older records only exist in paper form, and often the receipts are good enough. This is especially true when you’re dealing with 3rd party governments. A foreign government is going to put a lot more stock (rightly or wrongly) on a birth certificate that is printed on fancy paper covered in security features than it is to a printout of an email.
cyanydeez 2y ago
Tech bros need something to sell. Sew current maga vs musk

zahlman 2y ago

For me, this is a human rights issue. Article 13 of https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma... is not contingent upon ownership of a smartphone.

noodlesUK 2y ago
I do agree that conceptually the government shouldn’t force you to buy things from private companies to exercise your rights. However, you already have to buy a passport (often for a lot of money) in most countries, so pragmatically, I don’t know that it’s a hugely different thing to ask. However, there’s a big difference for children, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Immigration tends to stretch human rights though. It costs >10k gbp in visa fees for a British citizen to return to the UK with a non-UK spouse from arrival to settlement. You also need to be earning a fair bit of money, and not have the British partner as a stay at home spouse. I would say that frustrates article 8 ECHR, but the government disagrees. There are countless examples of similar issues re international travel and immigration. Smartphone ownership is simply one of many.
- rcbdev 2y ago
  Issuing a passport by the Austrian State Printing House costs 60€. Show me a phone with decent battery life that has comparable costs.
- shakna 2y ago
  If you are convicted of hacking in Australia, you may be subject to a lifetime order that prevents you from owning a smartphone. However, once your parole is done, you do have freedom of travel. Ownership of a device simply is not a guarantee you can rest on - even before you get to those who may not be able to use them.
  - noodlesUK 2y ago
    I completely agree. There are a variety of reasons why a person might be digitally excluded. Governments need to make sure that people can access the services that they’re entitled to through a wide variety of channels, including physically visiting an office if necessary. Though I will say, at a practical level, you will find that it’s increasingly difficult for people with criminal records to travel internationally (due to entry requirements).
    - sudoshred 2y ago
      Entitled is a strong word, eligible is maybe more precise.
      - jolmg 2y ago
        "They're entitled to" or "Have a right to" seem more precise than "eligible". At least in my country, I think everyone (citizens) has the right to a passport. It's not something you need to be chosen for as "eligible" would imply.
        sudoshred 2y ago
        My reasoning is that eligibility is a prerequisite for entitlement. I believe eligible is defined as meeting some criteria for, not necessarily being chosen though that could be a criteria. I agree they have a right to, however entitlement implies to me that the person has invested some time and resources in asserting their right. Whereas eligible means only that the right to something exists, if it were to be asserted.
zamadatix 2y ago
The UDHR is more a list of (short descriptions of) ideals than exact wording of the law to get there or when other things take priority. The 2 sentences making up that article don't really live up to that level of useful detail.
rkagerer 2y ago
Especially when these days it's near impossible to truly own your own smartphone.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- steelframe 2y ago
  I've simply been buying Pixel phones and using the GrapheneOS web installation tool. It holds your hand through unlocking the bootloader and flashing the new image on, and it always works without a hitch. Super-easy and reliable. I suppose you still don't "own" the radio firmware, but at least you can have a perfectly functional Google-free Android phone that way. I suppose the real trouble comes from needing to install software from the Google Play store in order to travel. If you feel you need to do that you can create a new Google account just for that installation of the Google Play from the phone itself and then never give it any of your personal information such as a payment method. GrapheneOS claims to do a pretty good job of sandboxing Google Play components. Regardless I agree with others here who think it should always be possible to travel without any electronics on your person.
  - Freak_NL 2y ago
    I use GrapheneOS, and wouldn't have it any other way, but its prolonged existence depends on Google not making any asshole moves in their next Pixels, and on the (highly appreciated) efforts of a few dedicated individuals. And like Linux on the desktop: it offers a better experience for everyone who either has the knowledge to step off the beaten path, or has someone who supports them. But that is just a few percent of people. The rest gets what market forces dictate.
  - rkagerer 2y ago
    Chris Woope nicely summarizes the main anti-user features I'd like to surgically remove from GrapheneOS: https://github.com/chriswoope/resign-android-image?tab=readme-ov-file#adb-root https://github.com/chriswoope/resign-android-image?tab=readm... I just wish there were a supported and easier way of achieving this. Would love any suggestions.
highcountess 2y ago
[flagged]

hilux 2y ago

> That means that revocation is harder, but IMO that’s a tradeoff that is worth making to avoid another Windrush scandal. I don't think the UK (Or US, other other European) government are too torn up about the possibility of another Windrush scandal. But I generally agree with you. A physical passport offers a degree of psychological and real "security" that the promise of some cloud-hosted credential absolutely does not. As a minor aside, I (US citizen) was once able to able to enter the US (at Toronto Pearson airport) despite having left my passport in some hotel. I just told the stern American guy "Yo soy American." Apparently they have ways of telling.

rachelgunn 2y ago

[dead]

frutiger 2y ago

> I feel strongly that any future digital travel credentials that are offered by governments should be able to operate entirely offline How offline is the current system today, where officers swipe/scan our paper passports into a machine?

noodlesUK 2y ago
With the current system, the passport chip can be validated offline if you have the CAs cached. If your computer is completely dead, you can look at the documents under a UV light and verify authenticity the old fashioned way. You could definitely design something that was verifiable offline using phones, but you’d be harder pressed to have it verifiable without any tech whatsoever.
- ksec 2y ago
  Exactly this when I said in another comment I want both. The old physical protection of UV light and verify authenticity the old fashioned way. It doesn't even need a stamp but a physical thing that prove my identity I can own. Not another number in the system. This is the same thing I am against a cashless society where the society no longer accept physical cash. And in 2012, and later 2014 when Apple Pay was introduced all the way to 2017, 99% of HN were in support of getting rid of physical cash.
  - ddingus 2y ago
    Paper has no downtime. In times of disaster, the people welding paper along with the people who can trade on their street cred, familiar friends, family, will get stuff, do necessary business. Everyone else will be essentially panhandling. Mind you, not a damn thing wrong with panhandling. That is not a crime. My point is to avoid having to do that where possible and practical.
ivanbalepin 2y ago
but that is not my problem my passport has been through a washing machine accidentally and i can still present it in the remotest of countries no matter the internet or whatever, and it works in the US, yes they are switching to face recognition and often they barely even look at the passport anymore. I enjoy the convenience of that, but i don't wish to share this data with all the countries in the world, nor to be on the hook for having a connected device everywhere in the world for basic movements.

rkagerer 2y ago

Transparency is another important one. One reason I dislike such digital ID schemes because I can't actually tell what information (or metadata) is being forked over. Even if it does purport to show me, I'm just supposed to trust what it says? No thank you. A piece of paper provides a common format that's easy for both me and the official inspecting it to understand.

pxeboot 2y ago
Passports have had NFC chips with the potential to store additional data for at least the past 10 years.
- bruce511 2y ago
  Not to mention the Passport Number which links the passport to databases of other information. Like the information on my visa application, or the fingerprints collected at that time, or my travel history, hotel stays, and so on. Data does not have your be "in the passport" to follow me around.
ascorbic 2y ago
What do you think happens when passport control scans your passport? The fact that the identifier is a paper document vs a digital token will make zero difference to the data that they track. It's linked to innumerable national and international databases which they will be tracking. Your privacy is basically zero when you cross borders.
- mcfedr 2y ago
  The difference is when computer says no, you can show that computer is wrong
  - henearkr 2y ago
    No, because the fake passeport detection is done by checking the database anyway. Honestly I don't see any other way. Else it becomes a paradise for forgery.

Xen9 2y ago

Most comment here are not related to the problem, which is your interest & my interest & interest of 98% of HN others at least conflicting with the interest of those who control how humans vote. We know how things ought to be if everyone wanted them to be good for most humans. None of this discussion will however convince anyone to work more altruistically in reality. Those who control the public opinion know that there's some opposition who confuses the problems with the conflict. They laugh since no one who thinks legislation like in the link would be generally bad can do anything. The ignorant will vote what the Orwellianishly-named "smartphone" will command them. In the next five years, it's likely the option to stab the kings will be for the first time removed, since robotic militias will mean no insurance CEO can simply be shot. This means there will be zero limits to what cruelty they'll do you, since no matter how torturous it gets you'll be unable to even violently resist this. You'll have no democratic mouth, but you must scream. Completes cyberpunkization well. --- Aside: US drones + US satellites that enable global connectivity of drones was a rather obvious consequence of Starlink ~4 years ago. If they really want some person, they now can search most of Earth in few hours with the drones + computer vision, and soon with land robots, all connected through Starlink (starshield to use the euphemism). The irony is how this at the same time solves the connectivity problem.

BurningFrog 2y ago
Who are "those who control the public opinion"?
- Xen9 2y ago
  In case I did, I would make sure I don't get pinpointed to, but in the US perhaps look at CFR / state department veterans & advertising corporations' stockholders & Google. In Europe traditional news sources there got economically slaughtered & replaced by few big online 1995-2005. This qas a consequence 1970s & 1980s academic networks working closely with US on web, and US then doing what it did with Google. If you can influence what ends up in the social media feed of those deciding about university curriculums and/or most politicians, that's quite powerful also. In Russia & China, there seems to be less hidden, less culture of valuing "free media." --- That public opinion "matters" but gets shaped is very plausible if you consider that most of history it didn't matter unless the public got very angry. Century of Self describes the process before Zuboff. One might argue that control of public opinion was originally more psychoanalytic idea, and then became more Skinnerian with computers.

pixelesque 2y ago

As a Brit with NZ permanent residency, there hasn't been residency stickers in passports for NZ residency for years now, so the only thing I have is a number and a PDF I can print out...

OJFord 2y ago

> the UK is moving to an entirely digital visa system and bringing in an ESTA style system called ETA for visa free countries. Canada, at least, already uses an ETA system called exactly that (or I guess TAE in French), so that probably had greater influence than the US ESTA.

noodlesUK 2y ago
Yes, and so do NZ and Australia. I actually think the biggest influencer is probably EITAS, which is the same thing for the Schengen area (yet to come into force). It’s a part of a wider trend going forward. I will say the UK/EU systems are fairly unique in that they aren’t excluding each other. Canadians don’t need ESTAs nor do Americans need Canadian ETAs

_l219 2y ago

I for one am really worried about the UK Digital Visa system. There are just so many ways it can break down Airport WiFi - people can easily run deauth with aircrack-ng. Email server might be down Phone out of battery Etc

daveoc64 2y ago
It's not digital in the sense that you need to show it on your device. It's digital in the sense that it's electronically stored against your passport number, and the UK Border Force can see it just by scanning your passport.

makeitdouble 2y ago

Those are all valid concerns. Then, the digital passport's ship has already sailed for better or for worse, and all these questions are solved in other ways. > when the Home Office messes up and accidentally deletes your immigration status You're toast either way, because it will be checked at the airport. You'll have to deal with the immigration officer and have them do something, because you won't go very far with just a paper that will be checked against the backend. In my experience it has already been the case for a while now. You still better have the reference paper that will help identify your visa procedure, dates etc. But it's already just a key to the info in the DB. > you will no longer be in possession of any records Print out the papers and keep track of the important pieces. It's the same for everything else in your life, including tax documents, birth certificates etc. Even in the olden days, the papers you had only had value against the agency's record that could prove their validity. If you had to prove residency in some specific period, having a stamp on your passport would mean very little if the agency denied having any records of it. So it's exactly the same weight as if you printed out a certificate while the DB blew out and no data about it are left. PS: I think in previous time people were also so much more lenient. It wasn't much a question of physical papers or not, and more on how much few people cared if your info was valid or not. I had an error in my name in many official documents, and while people noticed it, a simple "they typed it wrong" explanation was enough in 99% situations.

lathiat 2y ago
It's getting hard to even take printing stuff for granted. It's getting harder and harder on iOS just to arbitrarily copy and paste text from many apps - can't even copy the title of a YouTube video last time I tried. This mostly just worked on PC. It hurts me. Everything going so far backwards. At least once a week I have to screenshot something on iOS and use the new Photo OCR feature to copy and paste it out of the image. I wish I was joking.
noodlesUK 2y ago
If you have records of your own and pointers to other organizations contemporaneous records, you may have an opportunity to appeal if your DB record is lost. The home office rather notoriously destroyed/never kept its own records of arrivals of commonwealth citizens, which was one of the steps leading to the Windrush scandal. Many older records only exist in paper form, and often the receipts are good enough. This is especially true when you’re dealing with 3rd party governments. A foreign government is going to put a lot more stock (rightly or wrongly) on a birth certificate that is printed on fancy paper covered in security features than it is to a printout of an email.

cyanydeez 2y ago

Tech bros need something to sell. Sew current maga vs musk