5 ms·

Great news and arguably these are the most advanced semiconductors being produced in the United States today.

teruakohatu 2y ago
Wikipedia lists Intel 3 is roughly the same tech level as TSMC 3nm [1], but without listing transistor density. Intel is producing the Xeon 6 using Intel 3 [2]. So arguably Intel has a more advanced process in the USA than TSMC, which is doing 4nm in the USA next year. Intel's production is probably not very high. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process#cite_note-74 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process#cite_note-74 [2] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/processors/xeon/xeon6-product-brief.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/pro...
- georgeburdell 2y ago
  TSMC 3nm is a double digit percentage denser. Intel 3 is closer to TSMC 5nm
  - soganess 2y ago
    Citation? (Not intended as a snipe. I honestly just don't know where to look for that kinda info.)
    - georgeburdell 2y ago
      Wikichip is my go to (which is down right now for me unfortunately). It’s important to look at the latest data because Intel’s internal nodes real specs have not met the stated expectations recently
  - fooker 2y ago
    IIRC it was the other way around.
    - ryao 2y ago
      That was before Intel renamed their process nodes. They went from being 1 node more dense to being 1 node less dense with their new naming scheme. You need Intel 4 to match TSMC 5nm.
  - silisili 2y ago
    I'm not refuting the statement, only pointing out that density is not the only factor. Unfortunately, these numbers are arbitrary and companies are guessing what performs about like what based on numerous factors. Often wrongly - Samsung's equivalents were so bad Qualcomm pretty much abandoned them, and for good reason. Anyone who used an Exynos or SD888 understands why. I feel like we should have landed on a better tracking system now, like perf/watt, but here we are.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >these numbers are arbitrary Seeing as Intel 7 is formerly Intel 10nm, there is at least a reasonable argument in that Intel's number is one size(?) smaller than it should be.
      - silisili 2y ago
        It's equally likely Intel realized it performed as well as Samsung/TSMC "7". Which is the whole issue, we'll never really know.
- osnium123 2y ago
  Is Intel 3 manufactured in the US or Ireland? https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/new-fab-ireland-high-volume-production-intel-4-technology.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/new-fa... Also, it depends on the metrics but TSMC’s N4 is a mainstream foundry logic node. Who is using Intel 4/3 outside of Intel?
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Looks like both according to this quote: > Our Intel 3 is in high volume manufacturing in our Oregon and Ireland factories https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intel-3-3nm-class-process-technology-is-in-high-volume-production-intel https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intel-3-3nm-class...
ryao 2y ago
These are 4nm facilities. Intel’s 18A process is more advanced. Hopefully it will turn out well. If not, that is the end of Intel.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >Intel’s 18A process is more advanced. Can be, not "is". I will believe them when I see it.
aaronbrethorst 2y ago
[flagged]
clumsysmurf 2y ago
Maybe ... But for those living close to the plant, I'm not so sure: "Environmental, and public health groups, including the Sierra Club, are urging President Joe Biden to veto a controversial bill that exempts most semiconductor companies applying for federal CHIPS Act funding from having to complete essential environmental reviews, as required by the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA." “Exempting the semiconductor industry from NEPA is completely unwarranted, especially considering the projected significant increase use of PFAS and other toxic chemicals by the industry and their track record of releasing these dangerous chemicals into the air and water surrounding the facilities,” said Tom Fox, Senior Legislative Counsel at the Center for Environmental Health" https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2024/10/environmental-public-health-groups-urge-biden-veto-microchip-bill-threatens https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2024/10/environmen...
- wbl 2y ago
  NEPA doesn't govern any releases: that's done by the EPA under clean Air and clean water act.
  - clumsysmurf 2y ago
    Having lived next to the Motorola EPA superfund site, and more recently closer to the TSMC site, I find no consolation in your reply. The lack of transparency and accountability is too great.

Wikipedia lists Intel 3 is roughly the same tech level as TSMC 3nm [1], but without listing transistor density. Intel is producing the Xeon 6 using Intel 3 [2]. So arguably Intel has a more advanced process in the USA than TSMC, which is doing 4nm in the USA next year. Intel's production is probably not very high. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process#cite_note-74 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process#cite_note-74 [2] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/processors/xeon/xeon6-product-brief.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/pro...

georgeburdell 2y ago
TSMC 3nm is a double digit percentage denser. Intel 3 is closer to TSMC 5nm
- soganess 2y ago
  Citation? (Not intended as a snipe. I honestly just don't know where to look for that kinda info.)
  - georgeburdell 2y ago
    Wikichip is my go to (which is down right now for me unfortunately). It’s important to look at the latest data because Intel’s internal nodes real specs have not met the stated expectations recently
- fooker 2y ago
  IIRC it was the other way around.
  - ryao 2y ago
    That was before Intel renamed their process nodes. They went from being 1 node more dense to being 1 node less dense with their new naming scheme. You need Intel 4 to match TSMC 5nm.
- silisili 2y ago
  I'm not refuting the statement, only pointing out that density is not the only factor. Unfortunately, these numbers are arbitrary and companies are guessing what performs about like what based on numerous factors. Often wrongly - Samsung's equivalents were so bad Qualcomm pretty much abandoned them, and for good reason. Anyone who used an Exynos or SD888 understands why. I feel like we should have landed on a better tracking system now, like perf/watt, but here we are.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >these numbers are arbitrary Seeing as Intel 7 is formerly Intel 10nm, there is at least a reasonable argument in that Intel's number is one size(?) smaller than it should be.
    - silisili 2y ago
      It's equally likely Intel realized it performed as well as Samsung/TSMC "7". Which is the whole issue, we'll never really know.
osnium123 2y ago
Is Intel 3 manufactured in the US or Ireland? https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/new-fab-ireland-high-volume-production-intel-4-technology.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/new-fa... Also, it depends on the metrics but TSMC’s N4 is a mainstream foundry logic node. Who is using Intel 4/3 outside of Intel?
- kube-system 2y ago
  Looks like both according to this quote: > Our Intel 3 is in high volume manufacturing in our Oregon and Ireland factories https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intel-3-3nm-class-process-technology-is-in-high-volume-production-intel https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intel-3-3nm-class...

ryao 2y ago

These are 4nm facilities. Intel’s 18A process is more advanced. Hopefully it will turn out well. If not, that is the end of Intel.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>Intel’s 18A process is more advanced. Can be, not "is". I will believe them when I see it.

aaronbrethorst 2y ago

[flagged]

clumsysmurf 2y ago

Maybe ... But for those living close to the plant, I'm not so sure: "Environmental, and public health groups, including the Sierra Club, are urging President Joe Biden to veto a controversial bill that exempts most semiconductor companies applying for federal CHIPS Act funding from having to complete essential environmental reviews, as required by the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA." “Exempting the semiconductor industry from NEPA is completely unwarranted, especially considering the projected significant increase use of PFAS and other toxic chemicals by the industry and their track record of releasing these dangerous chemicals into the air and water surrounding the facilities,” said Tom Fox, Senior Legislative Counsel at the Center for Environmental Health" https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2024/10/environmental-public-health-groups-urge-biden-veto-microchip-bill-threatens https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2024/10/environmen...

wbl 2y ago
NEPA doesn't govern any releases: that's done by the EPA under clean Air and clean water act.
- clumsysmurf 2y ago
  Having lived next to the Motorola EPA superfund site, and more recently closer to the TSMC site, I find no consolation in your reply. The lack of transparency and accountability is too great.