3 ms·

I understand that and how Vocaloid works. The point I am trying to make is that AI will allow people without technical musical knowledge create music. If that m

by bogdan 2y ago

I understand that and how Vocaloid works. The point I am trying to make is that AI will allow people without technical musical knowledge create music. If that means writing a prompt to create a banger then so be it.

jsheard 2y ago
In that case yes, things like Suno make it easy to create music in the same sense that ChatGPT makes it easy to write a novel.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  Eh, a novel has to hold coherence over many hours, while a song only runs for a few minutes. It was possible to do a credible job composing algorithmic music in many genres before the current AI frenzy. Before long, you won't be able to tell the difference between human-composed and machine-composed music in any genre. It will be quite a while before that happens with novels and screenplays. Wouldn't bet against it in the long run, though.
vunderba 2y ago
This right here exemplifies my fundamental issue with GenAI. Paint a picture without painting a picture! Write a novel without writing a novel! Compose a melody without composing a melody! There was an absolutely insane comment on HN a few months ago where the poster said that they felt a sense of accomplishment after "producing" a song on Suno. I mean... how could that possibly be true? They didn't compose the melodic motif, figure out the chord progression, structure the song, or even write the lyrics. The world is getting a bit too kafkaesque for my liking.
- scotty79 2y ago
  It's a bit like taking a photo and it coming out surprisingly good. You just pointed the thing and pressed a button. Yet you feel accomplishment. Sure you might have chose a lens, depth and tried to point the things somewhat precisely. Then you sat at your computer to cut enough of the edges and fiddled with some curves so it feels nice for you. But ultimately you didn't make any of it. Machine made it all. You just guided it with the knobs provided for you. Yet you feel accomplishment if you make something good because you also made hundreds of it that were crap.
- drusepth 2y ago
  > There was an absolutely insane comment on HN a few months ago where the poster said that they felt a sense of accomplishment after "producing" a song on Suno. I mean... how could that possibly be true? They "created" something that, until now, would have required skills they didn't have. You don't see how someone could feel a sense of accomplishment for the end result, the thing they poofed into existence and like? We use tools to make things (even art) easier to create. I don't make my paints from scratch (anymore), or string my paintbrushes (anymore), or now sometimes choose my color palettes or general composition -- tools (like genAI) exist to let artists create art easier, and saying "you didn't put in enough thought/work/etc for it to count as art!" feels dismissive of the creative process and the joy people find in expressing themselves, regardless of how they got there.
- wodderam 2y ago
  Suno to me has only produced the most trivial garbage but music is really hard to produce. I could see how someone with no background in music could feel a sense of accomplishment with this. It is like a gen z version of playing the ironman or smoke on the water riff on guitar. It is just not that hard to play the ironman riff either. As someone who has put thousands of hours into learning music, anything that gets people into music is a positive to me. It seems like generative AI art and music really triggers tech people who have nothing to do with art and music. "Kids these days starting off programming a web app with a language model. In my day we had to take adderall and debug assembly code just to print an underscore to a dot matrix printer. That is the right way to start and anything else is WRONG"
fzeroracer 2y ago
There is no aspect of creation. All of the creative process is offloaded to something else. It's the middle management of art, people pretending they're creators by doing none of the work. Fundamentally what you are doing is no different than sending money to an artist to request them to draw you something. Except instead of a transaction which involves an actual artist doing work somewhere down the line, you are dictating to a model using stolen art to create something for you and then claiming you made it. I have seen amazing works of art and music from people with zero technical knowledge. It may be rough or weird but the jagged edges is what makes it art.

by bogdan 2y ago

jsheard 2y ago

In that case yes, things like Suno make it easy to create music in the same sense that ChatGPT makes it easy to write a novel.

CamperBob2 2y ago
Eh, a novel has to hold coherence over many hours, while a song only runs for a few minutes. It was possible to do a credible job composing algorithmic music in many genres before the current AI frenzy. Before long, you won't be able to tell the difference between human-composed and machine-composed music in any genre. It will be quite a while before that happens with novels and screenplays. Wouldn't bet against it in the long run, though.

vunderba 2y ago

This right here exemplifies my fundamental issue with GenAI. Paint a picture without painting a picture! Write a novel without writing a novel! Compose a melody without composing a melody! There was an absolutely insane comment on HN a few months ago where the poster said that they felt a sense of accomplishment after "producing" a song on Suno. I mean... how could that possibly be true? They didn't compose the melodic motif, figure out the chord progression, structure the song, or even write the lyrics. The world is getting a bit too kafkaesque for my liking.

scotty79 2y ago
It's a bit like taking a photo and it coming out surprisingly good. You just pointed the thing and pressed a button. Yet you feel accomplishment. Sure you might have chose a lens, depth and tried to point the things somewhat precisely. Then you sat at your computer to cut enough of the edges and fiddled with some curves so it feels nice for you. But ultimately you didn't make any of it. Machine made it all. You just guided it with the knobs provided for you. Yet you feel accomplishment if you make something good because you also made hundreds of it that were crap.
drusepth 2y ago
> There was an absolutely insane comment on HN a few months ago where the poster said that they felt a sense of accomplishment after "producing" a song on Suno. I mean... how could that possibly be true? They "created" something that, until now, would have required skills they didn't have. You don't see how someone could feel a sense of accomplishment for the end result, the thing they poofed into existence and like? We use tools to make things (even art) easier to create. I don't make my paints from scratch (anymore), or string my paintbrushes (anymore), or now sometimes choose my color palettes or general composition -- tools (like genAI) exist to let artists create art easier, and saying "you didn't put in enough thought/work/etc for it to count as art!" feels dismissive of the creative process and the joy people find in expressing themselves, regardless of how they got there.
wodderam 2y ago
Suno to me has only produced the most trivial garbage but music is really hard to produce. I could see how someone with no background in music could feel a sense of accomplishment with this. It is like a gen z version of playing the ironman or smoke on the water riff on guitar. It is just not that hard to play the ironman riff either. As someone who has put thousands of hours into learning music, anything that gets people into music is a positive to me. It seems like generative AI art and music really triggers tech people who have nothing to do with art and music. "Kids these days starting off programming a web app with a language model. In my day we had to take adderall and debug assembly code just to print an underscore to a dot matrix printer. That is the right way to start and anything else is WRONG"

fzeroracer 2y ago

There is no aspect of creation. All of the creative process is offloaded to something else. It's the middle management of art, people pretending they're creators by doing none of the work. Fundamentally what you are doing is no different than sending money to an artist to request them to draw you something. Except instead of a transaction which involves an actual artist doing work somewhere down the line, you are dictating to a model using stolen art to create something for you and then claiming you made it. I have seen amazing works of art and music from people with zero technical knowledge. It may be rough or weird but the jagged edges is what makes it art.