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The worst model is a Hyundai. They are the worst manufacturer overall by dint of having a plethora of bad hardware. The strange thing is high end cars normally

The worst model is a Hyundai. They are the worst manufacturer overall by dint of having a plethora of bad hardware. The strange thing is high end cars normally have as part of their appeal higher end safety features. Either Tesla is just a pos which is unsafe at any speed or its self driving features are so good at offing people it more than makes up for any other factor.

deleted 2y ago
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kube-system 2y ago
The Model Y was 6th behind that Hyundai and 5 other passenger vehicles from other manufacturers. They were all well within an order of magnitude of each other. This is the similarity I was referring to above.
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  Everything tesla makes is among the worst as far as safety whilst being among the most expensive common vehicles. If you average the scores of all models Tesla is worst because they don't make anything other than lemons safetywise. 1950s cars without seatbelts were probably in the same order of magnitude as is riding a mothercycle its a weird stadard. In actuality you are more than twice as likely to die if you drive a Tesla. 4x if you pick the model by.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    You're talking past me here, dude. My point is that their observed safety compares similarly to other vehicles in the context of transportation safety as a whole, not how specific models compare on a single year basis compared to other current-year new cars sold in the US.
    - michaelmrose 2y ago
      Full sedans as a whole across vehicles old and new is 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles. Tesla is as high as 10 Motorcycles are something crazy like 267 Yes driving a Tesla is far safer than driving a crotch rocket but far more dangerous than a 10 year old Carolla which is concerning. Either it is incredibly poorly designed as far as crash safety which doesn't appear to be so or its software kills enough people to more than make up the difference. Which is it? I'm guessing if we are relying on Tesla to investigate the state of the software that auto pilot is only being implicated when it is engaged till the end whereas most crashes probably see the human take over unsuccessfully prior to the endpoint.
      - kube-system 2y ago
        "Fullsize sedans driven in the US" isn't the same as "passenger cars", but whatever, regardless: they're within the same order of magnitude of other passenger cars. This small difference you're observing is likely because people drive like idiots in them. You'll see that other vehicles which encourage bad behavior have similar death rates. My point was, their safety systems don't put them in a significantly safer category, like a bus, train, or a plane, all of which are orders of magnitude safer.
        michaelmrose 2y ago
        Its not a small difference its up to 5x worse and there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers. The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        kube-system 2y ago
        No, I think 0.5 orders of magnitude is quite factually small compared to 6 orders of magnitude. > there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers Ah yes, just like all drivers of expensive hellcats are known for their safe driving? No, Teslas are not driven by the same demographics as Toyota Siennas. Have you taken a rideshare in a city before? > The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot The last I checked, the data showed that people wreck them at about the same rates with or without the driver assistance features engaged.

deleted 2y ago

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kube-system 2y ago

The Model Y was 6th behind that Hyundai and 5 other passenger vehicles from other manufacturers. They were all well within an order of magnitude of each other. This is the similarity I was referring to above.

michaelmrose 2y ago
Everything tesla makes is among the worst as far as safety whilst being among the most expensive common vehicles. If you average the scores of all models Tesla is worst because they don't make anything other than lemons safetywise. 1950s cars without seatbelts were probably in the same order of magnitude as is riding a mothercycle its a weird stadard. In actuality you are more than twice as likely to die if you drive a Tesla. 4x if you pick the model by.
- kube-system 2y ago
  You're talking past me here, dude. My point is that their observed safety compares similarly to other vehicles in the context of transportation safety as a whole, not how specific models compare on a single year basis compared to other current-year new cars sold in the US.
  - michaelmrose 2y ago
    Full sedans as a whole across vehicles old and new is 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles. Tesla is as high as 10 Motorcycles are something crazy like 267 Yes driving a Tesla is far safer than driving a crotch rocket but far more dangerous than a 10 year old Carolla which is concerning. Either it is incredibly poorly designed as far as crash safety which doesn't appear to be so or its software kills enough people to more than make up the difference. Which is it? I'm guessing if we are relying on Tesla to investigate the state of the software that auto pilot is only being implicated when it is engaged till the end whereas most crashes probably see the human take over unsuccessfully prior to the endpoint.
    - kube-system 2y ago
      "Fullsize sedans driven in the US" isn't the same as "passenger cars", but whatever, regardless: they're within the same order of magnitude of other passenger cars. This small difference you're observing is likely because people drive like idiots in them. You'll see that other vehicles which encourage bad behavior have similar death rates. My point was, their safety systems don't put them in a significantly safer category, like a bus, train, or a plane, all of which are orders of magnitude safer.
      - michaelmrose 2y ago
        Its not a small difference its up to 5x worse and there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers. The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        kube-system 2y ago
        No, I think 0.5 orders of magnitude is quite factually small compared to 6 orders of magnitude. > there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers Ah yes, just like all drivers of expensive hellcats are known for their safe driving? No, Teslas are not driven by the same demographics as Toyota Siennas. Have you taken a rideshare in a city before? > The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot The last I checked, the data showed that people wreck them at about the same rates with or without the driver assistance features engaged.