5 ms·

Looking forward to more testing like this. I've been trying to consciously avoid anything combining "hot" with "plastic" though there's only so much you can do.

Looking forward to more testing like this. I've been trying to consciously avoid anything combining "hot" with "plastic" though there's only so much you can do. Fish are aggregators of this stuff so that's not surprising. Spam and other processed meats and prepared foods also not too surprising (though what's with the Annie's organic mac and cheese being so full of it? Maybe it's the sauce?)... I think the tap water was the scariest one to me. Sure, you expect some but ... wildly unsafe levels?!

SoftTalker 2y ago
Have "unsafe levels" been established, or are we just assuming that any is bad? Edit: I see they appear to be using the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) intake limits for most of their tests.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Initial data says they're at least bad for sea life. Doubtful it's good to have such durable micro materials bouncing around our lungs and digestive tracts. Stopping pollution is also much easier than cleaning up after the fact. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10151227/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10151227/
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > Doubtful it's good to have such durable micro materials bouncing around our lungs and digestive tracts. Having odd things in your lungs is bad. Having things bouncing around in your digestive tract means nothing. The whole point of the digestive tract is that you put untrusted materials into it.
    - jcims 2y ago
      As long as it actually makes it out the other end. Bits of undigestable matter the size of smoke particles is a relatively new phenomenon.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Uh, smoke particles and mineral dusts are generally non digestible - and we’ve been eating smoked/cooked meats and slightly dirty things for at least as long as recorded history?
        thatcat 2y ago
        isnt smoked/charred food associated with colon cancer?
        lazide 2y ago
        Many of the chemicals in smoke particles cause cancer with extended contact. But not new. At all.
        MVissers 2y ago
        Yes. And the last decades we’ve had a new unknown cause of colon cancer increase in young adults. My money is on plastics, but will be hard to prove.
        wahern 2y ago
        There's growing evidence, especially in the past few years with better studies, that suggests HPV is a significant driver, if not the most significant driver, of the increase in colorectal cancer among younger adults. I suspect it's been a disfavored explanation because of certain implications--implications which should be irrelevant and not even necessarily true, but I digress. The HPV vaccine should in theory be protective[1] so in the next decade or so it might become more clear even in the absence of additional direct investigation. Likewise, we should expect the incidence of oropharyngeal cancers to decrease, which probably not coincidentally has also risen among younger--20-50yo--adults. Notably, the HPV link is more clearly established. [1] HPV16 and HPV18 being the variants most often identified in HPV-associated colorectal cancers[2], and which are targeted by HPV vaccines as they're the variants primarily responsible for cervical and anal cancers. [2] See, e.g., https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1479314/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1479314/ and https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9610003/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9610003/
pj_mukh 2y ago
Also, is there an aggregate plastic danger metric? It would be great to develop an aggregate metric that combines the different types of plastics and multiplies them by their known potential dangers to the human body. I realize the multiples will change over time as more research comes in, but right now, there's no way to quantify BPA vs DEHP dangers. This would make the main giant aggregate list: https://www.plasticlist.org https://www.plasticlist.org a lot more useful.
- roseway4 2y ago
  The PlasticList site explores safety levels, including a discussion of aggregate levels across products and chemicals. It’s an interesting but frustrating read.
ghostly_s 2y ago
Are you looking at the results in the table on the main page? That is tap water treated with some purifying tablet, not straight tap water. There is plain tap water in the full database but it doesn't seem to have levels of anything in excess of established limits.
- devindotcom 2y ago
  My mistake, I didn't see that part. I thought the tablet treatment was just something they did to prepare it for testing. Maybe the tablets kill the microfauna via microplastic overdose.
RajT88 2y ago
Manufacturers are putting more and more plastic into things to cut costs it seems. My favorite pour over coffee maker almost entirely had water in contact with metal and glass during brewing. Glass reservoir, glass decanter, metal grounds basket - only rubber tubes going from reservoir to heating element. When it died (your average coffee maker only lasts 5 years) all of their newer more expensive models had mostly plastic everything except for the decanter.
- maroonblazer 2y ago
  Hmmm...I'm now worried about my Aeropress, which I love. Perhaps it's time to switch to a french press.
  - kristofferR 2y ago
    They have an Aeropress in glass now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw0hc7CB64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw0hc7CB64
falafels 2y ago
> Fish are aggregators of this stuff so that's not surprising. I doubt the BPA in fish originates from the fish themselves. It's more likely from the can linings used to package the fish.

SoftTalker 2y ago

Have "unsafe levels" been established, or are we just assuming that any is bad? Edit: I see they appear to be using the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) intake limits for most of their tests.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Initial data says they're at least bad for sea life. Doubtful it's good to have such durable micro materials bouncing around our lungs and digestive tracts. Stopping pollution is also much easier than cleaning up after the fact. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10151227/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10151227/
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > Doubtful it's good to have such durable micro materials bouncing around our lungs and digestive tracts. Having odd things in your lungs is bad. Having things bouncing around in your digestive tract means nothing. The whole point of the digestive tract is that you put untrusted materials into it.
  - jcims 2y ago
    As long as it actually makes it out the other end. Bits of undigestable matter the size of smoke particles is a relatively new phenomenon.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Uh, smoke particles and mineral dusts are generally non digestible - and we’ve been eating smoked/cooked meats and slightly dirty things for at least as long as recorded history?
      - thatcat 2y ago
        isnt smoked/charred food associated with colon cancer?
        lazide 2y ago
        Many of the chemicals in smoke particles cause cancer with extended contact. But not new. At all.
        MVissers 2y ago
        Yes. And the last decades we’ve had a new unknown cause of colon cancer increase in young adults. My money is on plastics, but will be hard to prove.
        wahern 2y ago
        There's growing evidence, especially in the past few years with better studies, that suggests HPV is a significant driver, if not the most significant driver, of the increase in colorectal cancer among younger adults. I suspect it's been a disfavored explanation because of certain implications--implications which should be irrelevant and not even necessarily true, but I digress. The HPV vaccine should in theory be protective[1] so in the next decade or so it might become more clear even in the absence of additional direct investigation. Likewise, we should expect the incidence of oropharyngeal cancers to decrease, which probably not coincidentally has also risen among younger--20-50yo--adults. Notably, the HPV link is more clearly established. [1] HPV16 and HPV18 being the variants most often identified in HPV-associated colorectal cancers[2], and which are targeted by HPV vaccines as they're the variants primarily responsible for cervical and anal cancers. [2] See, e.g., https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1479314/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1479314/ and https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9610003/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9610003/

pj_mukh 2y ago

Also, is there an aggregate plastic danger metric? It would be great to develop an aggregate metric that combines the different types of plastics and multiplies them by their known potential dangers to the human body. I realize the multiples will change over time as more research comes in, but right now, there's no way to quantify BPA vs DEHP dangers. This would make the main giant aggregate list: https://www.plasticlist.org https://www.plasticlist.org a lot more useful.

roseway4 2y ago
The PlasticList site explores safety levels, including a discussion of aggregate levels across products and chemicals. It’s an interesting but frustrating read.

ghostly_s 2y ago

Are you looking at the results in the table on the main page? That is tap water treated with some purifying tablet, not straight tap water. There is plain tap water in the full database but it doesn't seem to have levels of anything in excess of established limits.

devindotcom 2y ago
My mistake, I didn't see that part. I thought the tablet treatment was just something they did to prepare it for testing. Maybe the tablets kill the microfauna via microplastic overdose.

RajT88 2y ago

Manufacturers are putting more and more plastic into things to cut costs it seems. My favorite pour over coffee maker almost entirely had water in contact with metal and glass during brewing. Glass reservoir, glass decanter, metal grounds basket - only rubber tubes going from reservoir to heating element. When it died (your average coffee maker only lasts 5 years) all of their newer more expensive models had mostly plastic everything except for the decanter.

maroonblazer 2y ago
Hmmm...I'm now worried about my Aeropress, which I love. Perhaps it's time to switch to a french press.
- kristofferR 2y ago
  They have an Aeropress in glass now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw0hc7CB64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw0hc7CB64

falafels 2y ago

> Fish are aggregators of this stuff so that's not surprising. I doubt the BPA in fish originates from the fish themselves. It's more likely from the can linings used to package the fish.