5 ms·

It's funny, I often hear, for the first time, about interesting projects just as they are shutting down. I wish there was some kind of pre-emptive news service

It's funny, I often hear, for the first time, about interesting projects just as they are shutting down. I wish there was some kind of pre-emptive news service that would tell me about them BEFORE they shutdown! Like maybe some kind of quantum computer internet thing that lets you time travel but just via the web browser.

wiml 2y ago
This seems like a good place to Ask HN: What is the state of Android distros/forks right now anyway? What's the popular works-pretty-well-for-most-people project? What are some obscure or niche gems that could be better known?
- doublepg23 2y ago
  LineageOS is stellar on my Sammy S5e - pretty perfect comic tablet imo (ultralight, OLED, high res, external storage)
- baobun 2y ago
  Replicant is an older still relevant project that could use some support! As I understand they have been held back by lack of modern handsets with clearly separated modem chips. It still great on Galaxy S3... The Pinephone has been identified as an appropriate dev target. https://www.replicant.us/ https://www.replicant.us/
- fisian 2y ago
  GrapheneOS on a Pixel is probably the most polished and secure experience. I have installed it (and enabled sandboxed Google services) on my mom's phone (she's pretty non-technical) and she had no bigger problems in the last years.
  - fmajid 2y ago
    Probably the most secure mobile OS available to the public right now.
  - dsr_ 2y ago
    +1 for Graphene -- installation is easy, documentation is not bad, and it's really easy on the battery.
  - yonatan8070 2y ago
    I got a Pixel 8 to run GrapheneOS just last week, I installed it right after I got the phone after all the recommendations I read online. Before that I was using crDroid on a Poco F3 (I switched because the camera was quite awful and the battery got drained rather fast), and I was expecting some of crDroid's features that were just missing. A shortcut to the flashlight via power button long press, battery charge limit/smart charging, bandwidth display on the status bar, the option to add more columns to the quick settings, just to name a few. I ended up running crDroid on the Pixel as well, overall it's a decent experience, but not nearly as polished, it turns out I had to manually grant Google Play Services the location permission via ADB so apps would know where I am (missed a train to that one). I'd love it if there was some ROM that combined the security and sandboxing from GrapheneOS with all the neat little features in crDroid... or an actually good Linux phone.
    - jpk 2y ago
      Would you mind talking a little bit about the threat model that would lead you to using Graphine on a new device? IIUC, you have to unlock the bootloader to use a custom ROM, which makes the device vulnerable to physical access in cases like theft, confiscation, etc. So you have to trade that for whatever the custom ROM gives you?
      - prmoustache 2y ago
        The bootloader is only unlocked for the first install, then locked again.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        Graphene only supports the pixel line, and part of the reason is because that's one of the very few (if not the only?) phones that let you relock the bootloader after installing a replacement ROM
      - slashtab 2y ago
        To add to other replies GrapheneOS also provides USB-C exploit protection at hardware level.
      - deleted 2y ago
  - evolving-silica 2y ago
    I wouldn't say most polished. Out of the box LineageOS comes with better stock apps like gallery, dialler or SMS app. Some shown here: https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/
  - aussieguy1234 2y ago
    I've been using it for the past year and it works well. With one exception. The couple of times I've called emergency services, they were not able to detect my location since GrapheneOS does not support the protocol for this. So, I had to waste time giving directions. It's a tradeoff for privacy vs safety. It might be something to think about before, say, putting this on someone's phone who has a medical condition or is elderly. https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1174 https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1174
- exe34 2y ago
  lineage os works well on the pixel 5 - cheap (obsolete) phone that more than matches my needs.
- code-blooded 2y ago
  CalyxOS is the alternative to Graphene mentioned above. CalyxOS has a bit different goals - it cares about privacy more than security and complete removes Google services instead of sandboxing them (they get replaced with MicroG which is a shim of Google services so that majority of apps continue to work). I successfully used it for a few years on my Pixel 4a. Most apps just worked including banking, but some didn't. Notably dating apps didn't work well and Uber's map didn't look right.
  - doug-moen 2y ago
    Graphene completely removes Google services in the default install. There is an option to install a sandboxed version of the Google play store, with enhanced privacy and security, but you don't need to install this or any other Google services if you don't want to, and I have opted to keep my Graphene installation Google-free. There is a disagreement between the Graphene and CalyxOS community about which is more secure/private: Graphene's sandboxed Google play store, or CalyxOS's MicroG. I've read posts advocating for both sides, but I don't have the expertise to have an opinion, and I decided that I don't want either software on my phone, since I don't want to run google code or play store apps. Although I'm not expert enough to validate the following claims, here's what I've read. Graphene people claim that MicroG needs elevated privileges to run, privileges that Graphene doesn't grant to any app. MicroG also loads and runs Google code (in a context where that Google code would presumably have access to those elevated privileges). Graphene's version of the play store emulates some APIs without using Google code (for privacy), and sandboxes the Google code that it does run, running it with reduced privileges. This is a security first posture, keeping in mind that if you don't have security then you can lose privacy via exploits of your security holes. CalyxOS's MicroG emulates a larger fraction of the google play APIs, making it less reliant on google code to operate, and this is the source of the claim that MicroG offers more privacy.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      It's really not feasible to run most apps without Google Play APIs/MicroG. The most problematic issue is the notification API. MicroG runs with elevated permissions to avoid being killed, and so that it can continue listening to socket events. Once an event arrives, it decodes it into a notification, packages into an RPC request, and awakes/runs the target application activity. Then it, crucially, uses the elevated privileges to override the default policy to also allow the target application to run without interruptions for 20 seconds (to process the notification).
- palata 2y ago
  I have been using /e/OS for a few years. It's not the most secure (that would be GrapheneOS), but it works well and it is deGoogled. It is based on Lineage.
- dartharva 2y ago
  Custom ROMs still exist, but have become a lot weaker in destinction than they used to. In their "golden years" OEM Android distributions were just bad and came with inexcusable bloatware and restrictions. The main charm of Custom ROMs back then used to be that they were relatively cleaner. But now, with most Android phones coming with hardware powerful enough to make any impact of bloatware negligible, not to mention Android (and OEM iterations) itself having been converged into leaner, more efficient designs, the relative utility offered by Custom ROMs is fading fast.
  - NotPractical 2y ago
    The main advantages these days are reducing reliance on Google [1], supporting open-source software, and extra security/privacy protections. Probably true that the average poweruser perceives less value from them than before. Some of those advantages are more ideological and less concrete/measurable. Compared to the Pixel stock ROM, you aren't missing out on much, and you're gaining a few non-security bonus features, like unrestricted tethering, local/offline backups, call recording, and Network permission toggle [2]. [1] I don't really like the term "de-Googling" because it paints an all-or-nothing picture, despite alternative ROMs providing the option to use Google services in a safer and fairer way (fairer as in, non-Google apps are on a level playing field when it comes to OS integration). [2] This is most certainly intended as a security/privacy feature, but I find it useful as an adblocker as well :)
zitterbewegung 2y ago
Possibly the most interesting this is that they will shut down and that generates the most interest unfortunately.

wiml 2y ago

This seems like a good place to Ask HN: What is the state of Android distros/forks right now anyway? What's the popular works-pretty-well-for-most-people project? What are some obscure or niche gems that could be better known?

doublepg23 2y ago
LineageOS is stellar on my Sammy S5e - pretty perfect comic tablet imo (ultralight, OLED, high res, external storage)
baobun 2y ago
Replicant is an older still relevant project that could use some support! As I understand they have been held back by lack of modern handsets with clearly separated modem chips. It still great on Galaxy S3... The Pinephone has been identified as an appropriate dev target. https://www.replicant.us/ https://www.replicant.us/
fisian 2y ago
GrapheneOS on a Pixel is probably the most polished and secure experience. I have installed it (and enabled sandboxed Google services) on my mom's phone (she's pretty non-technical) and she had no bigger problems in the last years.
- fmajid 2y ago
  Probably the most secure mobile OS available to the public right now.
- dsr_ 2y ago
  +1 for Graphene -- installation is easy, documentation is not bad, and it's really easy on the battery.
- yonatan8070 2y ago
  I got a Pixel 8 to run GrapheneOS just last week, I installed it right after I got the phone after all the recommendations I read online. Before that I was using crDroid on a Poco F3 (I switched because the camera was quite awful and the battery got drained rather fast), and I was expecting some of crDroid's features that were just missing. A shortcut to the flashlight via power button long press, battery charge limit/smart charging, bandwidth display on the status bar, the option to add more columns to the quick settings, just to name a few. I ended up running crDroid on the Pixel as well, overall it's a decent experience, but not nearly as polished, it turns out I had to manually grant Google Play Services the location permission via ADB so apps would know where I am (missed a train to that one). I'd love it if there was some ROM that combined the security and sandboxing from GrapheneOS with all the neat little features in crDroid... or an actually good Linux phone.
  - jpk 2y ago
    Would you mind talking a little bit about the threat model that would lead you to using Graphine on a new device? IIUC, you have to unlock the bootloader to use a custom ROM, which makes the device vulnerable to physical access in cases like theft, confiscation, etc. So you have to trade that for whatever the custom ROM gives you?
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      The bootloader is only unlocked for the first install, then locked again.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      Graphene only supports the pixel line, and part of the reason is because that's one of the very few (if not the only?) phones that let you relock the bootloader after installing a replacement ROM
    - slashtab 2y ago
      To add to other replies GrapheneOS also provides USB-C exploit protection at hardware level.
    - deleted 2y ago
- evolving-silica 2y ago
  I wouldn't say most polished. Out of the box LineageOS comes with better stock apps like gallery, dialler or SMS app. Some shown here: https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/
- aussieguy1234 2y ago
  I've been using it for the past year and it works well. With one exception. The couple of times I've called emergency services, they were not able to detect my location since GrapheneOS does not support the protocol for this. So, I had to waste time giving directions. It's a tradeoff for privacy vs safety. It might be something to think about before, say, putting this on someone's phone who has a medical condition or is elderly. https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1174 https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1174
exe34 2y ago
lineage os works well on the pixel 5 - cheap (obsolete) phone that more than matches my needs.
code-blooded 2y ago
CalyxOS is the alternative to Graphene mentioned above. CalyxOS has a bit different goals - it cares about privacy more than security and complete removes Google services instead of sandboxing them (they get replaced with MicroG which is a shim of Google services so that majority of apps continue to work). I successfully used it for a few years on my Pixel 4a. Most apps just worked including banking, but some didn't. Notably dating apps didn't work well and Uber's map didn't look right.
- doug-moen 2y ago
  Graphene completely removes Google services in the default install. There is an option to install a sandboxed version of the Google play store, with enhanced privacy and security, but you don't need to install this or any other Google services if you don't want to, and I have opted to keep my Graphene installation Google-free. There is a disagreement between the Graphene and CalyxOS community about which is more secure/private: Graphene's sandboxed Google play store, or CalyxOS's MicroG. I've read posts advocating for both sides, but I don't have the expertise to have an opinion, and I decided that I don't want either software on my phone, since I don't want to run google code or play store apps. Although I'm not expert enough to validate the following claims, here's what I've read. Graphene people claim that MicroG needs elevated privileges to run, privileges that Graphene doesn't grant to any app. MicroG also loads and runs Google code (in a context where that Google code would presumably have access to those elevated privileges). Graphene's version of the play store emulates some APIs without using Google code (for privacy), and sandboxes the Google code that it does run, running it with reduced privileges. This is a security first posture, keeping in mind that if you don't have security then you can lose privacy via exploits of your security holes. CalyxOS's MicroG emulates a larger fraction of the google play APIs, making it less reliant on google code to operate, and this is the source of the claim that MicroG offers more privacy.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    It's really not feasible to run most apps without Google Play APIs/MicroG. The most problematic issue is the notification API. MicroG runs with elevated permissions to avoid being killed, and so that it can continue listening to socket events. Once an event arrives, it decodes it into a notification, packages into an RPC request, and awakes/runs the target application activity. Then it, crucially, uses the elevated privileges to override the default policy to also allow the target application to run without interruptions for 20 seconds (to process the notification).
palata 2y ago
I have been using /e/OS for a few years. It's not the most secure (that would be GrapheneOS), but it works well and it is deGoogled. It is based on Lineage.
dartharva 2y ago
Custom ROMs still exist, but have become a lot weaker in destinction than they used to. In their "golden years" OEM Android distributions were just bad and came with inexcusable bloatware and restrictions. The main charm of Custom ROMs back then used to be that they were relatively cleaner. But now, with most Android phones coming with hardware powerful enough to make any impact of bloatware negligible, not to mention Android (and OEM iterations) itself having been converged into leaner, more efficient designs, the relative utility offered by Custom ROMs is fading fast.
- NotPractical 2y ago
  The main advantages these days are reducing reliance on Google [1], supporting open-source software, and extra security/privacy protections. Probably true that the average poweruser perceives less value from them than before. Some of those advantages are more ideological and less concrete/measurable. Compared to the Pixel stock ROM, you aren't missing out on much, and you're gaining a few non-security bonus features, like unrestricted tethering, local/offline backups, call recording, and Network permission toggle [2]. [1] I don't really like the term "de-Googling" because it paints an all-or-nothing picture, despite alternative ROMs providing the option to use Google services in a safer and fairer way (fairer as in, non-Google apps are on a level playing field when it comes to OS integration). [2] This is most certainly intended as a security/privacy feature, but I find it useful as an adblocker as well :)

zitterbewegung 2y ago

Possibly the most interesting this is that they will shut down and that generates the most interest unfortunately.