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IMHO, Polish president plane should be counted too. It looks like pilots were tricked by Russians to descent to 50 meters instead of safe 100 meters.

mulmen 2y ago
Both of those altitudes seem extremely low. I’m not familiar with this incident, can you provide more details?
- vinckr 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster
etc-hosts 2y ago
If you read this long, allegedly well researched piece: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/all-the-presidents-men-the-story-of-the-smolensk-air-disaster-and-the-death-of-lech-kaczy%C5%84ski-590a3977f https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/all-the-presidents-men-t... tl;dr: "Amid the endless political struggle, it is easy to lose perspective on the Smolensk Air Disaster as, first and foremost, a plane crash. Had the President not been on board to politicize the tragedy, it would have been obvious to everyone that the flight that day was a disaster waiting to happen. A poorly trained and unqualified crew was charged with flying VIPs into an ill-equipped, decrepit airport amid extremely dense fog."
- oneshtein 2y ago
  This phrase should not replace a proper plane crash investigation, isn't? The facts are: 1) Russians fixed the airfield infrastructure in few hours AFTER the crash. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Tu-154-crash-in-smolensk-20100410-08.jpg https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Tu-154-crash-in-smolensk-... 2) Russians directed Polish pilots to descend to 50 meters, as witnessed by Polish pilot Remigiusz Muś, who died after that. 3) Russians cut 16 seconds from the audio record, then provided the full version. ;-) Yeah, it looks like a regular day in Russia, but Polish president died.
  - defrost 2y ago
    “The plane was staying overnight in a hotel, as is often the case for large passenger aircraft relaxing between shifts,” the Kremlin spokesperson said. “Unfortunately it had a few drinks, the window was open, and it fell out. Our thoughts are with the victims”.
ajuc 2y ago
This is strongly politicized in Poland, there have been many commissions and expertises, and despite most Poles thinking all the worst about Russia - majority (me included) does not believe it to be on purpose.

mulmen 2y ago

Both of those altitudes seem extremely low. I’m not familiar with this incident, can you provide more details?

vinckr 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster

etc-hosts 2y ago

If you read this long, allegedly well researched piece: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/all-the-presidents-men-the-story-of-the-smolensk-air-disaster-and-the-death-of-lech-kaczy%C5%84ski-590a3977f https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/all-the-presidents-men-t... tl;dr: "Amid the endless political struggle, it is easy to lose perspective on the Smolensk Air Disaster as, first and foremost, a plane crash. Had the President not been on board to politicize the tragedy, it would have been obvious to everyone that the flight that day was a disaster waiting to happen. A poorly trained and unqualified crew was charged with flying VIPs into an ill-equipped, decrepit airport amid extremely dense fog."

oneshtein 2y ago
This phrase should not replace a proper plane crash investigation, isn't? The facts are: 1) Russians fixed the airfield infrastructure in few hours AFTER the crash. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Tu-154-crash-in-smolensk-20100410-08.jpg https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Tu-154-crash-in-smolensk-... 2) Russians directed Polish pilots to descend to 50 meters, as witnessed by Polish pilot Remigiusz Muś, who died after that. 3) Russians cut 16 seconds from the audio record, then provided the full version. ;-) Yeah, it looks like a regular day in Russia, but Polish president died.
- defrost 2y ago
  “The plane was staying overnight in a hotel, as is often the case for large passenger aircraft relaxing between shifts,” the Kremlin spokesperson said. “Unfortunately it had a few drinks, the window was open, and it fell out. Our thoughts are with the victims”.

ajuc 2y ago

This is strongly politicized in Poland, there have been many commissions and expertises, and despite most Poles thinking all the worst about Russia - majority (me included) does not believe it to be on purpose.