7 ms·

He was going to testify in a case involving openAIs illegal usage of copy right data and text. There’s a lot to be gained with his death.

ghaff 2y ago
Except no one really disputes that training on copyrighted data and text is going on. The question is whether that is OK from a legal perspective. Which is a matter for the courts and the legislature.
- foundart 2y ago
  Courts in the relevant jurisdictions don't work on "no one really disputes." It would have to be _proven_ in a court, which involves evidence and testimony, and if the whistleblower was in a good position to provide credible testimony then his death would likely make it harder to do prove copyright violations have taken place.
  - tiahura 2y ago
    Courts in the relevant jurisdictions don't work on "no one really disputes." It’s called a Motion for Summary Judgment.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure any competent lawyer would stipulate that, in many/most cases, training is happening on copyrighted information. I'm also pretty sure that OpenAI is not arguing that all their training data is either licensed or they own the copyrights to. (Some companies, perhaps Adobe?, have been more conservative.) Perhaps I'm wrong. But I haven't heard that argument publicly and I would need to be convinced.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      Discovering certain types of data were gathered and used would be much worse. Training on CNN and Netflix content = i sleep Training on private personal and corporate inboxes, medical records, and illegal content, purchased from blackhat data brokers = real shit A Kenyan data labeler famously cut ties with Openai after Openai asked them to gather CSAM content.
      - BadHumans 2y ago
        Citation on that?
        upghost 2y ago
        https://www.wsj.com/articles/chatgpt-openai-content-abusive-sexually-explicit-harassment-kenya-workers-on-human-workers-cf191483 https://www.wsj.com/articles/chatgpt-openai-content-abusive-... https://www.bigdatawire.com/2023/01/20/openai-outsourced-data-labeling-to-kenyan-workers-earning-less-than-2-per-hour-time-report/ https://www.bigdatawire.com/2023/01/20/openai-outsourced-dat... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/aug/02/ai-chatbot-training-human-toll-content-moderator-meta-openai https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/aug/02/ai-chatbo... https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-kenyan-contract-workers-label-toxic-content-chatgpt-training-report-2023-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-kenyan-contract-worke... https://www.medianama.com/2023/07/223-kenyan-workers-call-for-investigation-into-exploitation-by-openai-3/ https://www.medianama.com/2023/07/223-kenyan-workers-call-fo... They were asked to label CSAM, to clarify.
        BadHumans 2y ago
        Gather and label are two wildly different things that change the entire context. They aren't saying go find this stuff for us, they are saying if people upload it or you find it in the data then, label it as such.
        hansvm 2y ago
        It only changes who actually gathered the CSAM they asked this person to label. OpenAI definitely gathered it.
- trod1234 2y ago
  Which begs the question, what did he see or could testify about while he was there that is not this, but so much worse? In a conspiracy, all loose ends are cut.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    which begs the answer: nothing, unless there is sufficiently convincing evidence to the contrary.
    - trod1234 2y ago
      There is sufficiently convincing evidence for an investigation. People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party. More than three intersections, so its not coincidence. This happens once, its a one-off but a couple of times, and you can no longer be permissive in your presumptions and reasoning, and must be much more restrictive. 3 times, in a short period of time (relatively speaking), is the magic number in statistics where given the astronomical number of possibilities, it happened the same way. It indicates a trend which is more than deserving further investigation, and associated resources. When the government cannot protect whistleblowers, the rule of law breaks down in a very public way. The rule by law which takes its place, letting the corrupt benefit, is just a stand in before collapse into increasing trends towards violence. If the law is unable to hold people to account equally, with access, independent judiciary, transparency, and fulfilling its purpose of non-violent resolution, then it fails as a rule of law, and becomes a rule by law. Just like the events that happened to the Colonists in 1776, and the many abuses that led to uprising... when the courts failed and General Gage took over. The primary purpose of the courts is equitable non-violent conflict resolution to the law. Its a pivotal pillar of civilized society, when people see it has failed, they may go for the brass verdict instead of volunteering themselves for a kafkaesque suicide court.
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        Feel free to investigate all you want, if you personally find there to be convincing, non-circumstantial evidence that the dude was explicitly killed by openAI. People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party. This is a contrived description that could apply to any number of events, from a policeman dying to someone dying of cancer. Fanciful narratives aren't evidence, though. Evidence is something like: Sally saw someone shoot the dude.

ghaff 2y ago

Except no one really disputes that training on copyrighted data and text is going on. The question is whether that is OK from a legal perspective. Which is a matter for the courts and the legislature.

foundart 2y ago
Courts in the relevant jurisdictions don't work on "no one really disputes." It would have to be _proven_ in a court, which involves evidence and testimony, and if the whistleblower was in a good position to provide credible testimony then his death would likely make it harder to do prove copyright violations have taken place.
- tiahura 2y ago
  Courts in the relevant jurisdictions don't work on "no one really disputes." It’s called a Motion for Summary Judgment.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure any competent lawyer would stipulate that, in many/most cases, training is happening on copyrighted information. I'm also pretty sure that OpenAI is not arguing that all their training data is either licensed or they own the copyrights to. (Some companies, perhaps Adobe?, have been more conservative.) Perhaps I'm wrong. But I haven't heard that argument publicly and I would need to be convinced.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    Discovering certain types of data were gathered and used would be much worse. Training on CNN and Netflix content = i sleep Training on private personal and corporate inboxes, medical records, and illegal content, purchased from blackhat data brokers = real shit A Kenyan data labeler famously cut ties with Openai after Openai asked them to gather CSAM content.
    - BadHumans 2y ago
      Citation on that?
      - upghost 2y ago
        https://www.wsj.com/articles/chatgpt-openai-content-abusive-sexually-explicit-harassment-kenya-workers-on-human-workers-cf191483 https://www.wsj.com/articles/chatgpt-openai-content-abusive-... https://www.bigdatawire.com/2023/01/20/openai-outsourced-data-labeling-to-kenyan-workers-earning-less-than-2-per-hour-time-report/ https://www.bigdatawire.com/2023/01/20/openai-outsourced-dat... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/aug/02/ai-chatbot-training-human-toll-content-moderator-meta-openai https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/aug/02/ai-chatbo... https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-kenyan-contract-workers-label-toxic-content-chatgpt-training-report-2023-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-kenyan-contract-worke... https://www.medianama.com/2023/07/223-kenyan-workers-call-for-investigation-into-exploitation-by-openai-3/ https://www.medianama.com/2023/07/223-kenyan-workers-call-fo... They were asked to label CSAM, to clarify.
        BadHumans 2y ago
        Gather and label are two wildly different things that change the entire context. They aren't saying go find this stuff for us, they are saying if people upload it or you find it in the data then, label it as such.
        hansvm 2y ago
        It only changes who actually gathered the CSAM they asked this person to label. OpenAI definitely gathered it.
trod1234 2y ago
Which begs the question, what did he see or could testify about while he was there that is not this, but so much worse? In a conspiracy, all loose ends are cut.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  which begs the answer: nothing, unless there is sufficiently convincing evidence to the contrary.
  - trod1234 2y ago
    There is sufficiently convincing evidence for an investigation. People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party. More than three intersections, so its not coincidence. This happens once, its a one-off but a couple of times, and you can no longer be permissive in your presumptions and reasoning, and must be much more restrictive. 3 times, in a short period of time (relatively speaking), is the magic number in statistics where given the astronomical number of possibilities, it happened the same way. It indicates a trend which is more than deserving further investigation, and associated resources. When the government cannot protect whistleblowers, the rule of law breaks down in a very public way. The rule by law which takes its place, letting the corrupt benefit, is just a stand in before collapse into increasing trends towards violence. If the law is unable to hold people to account equally, with access, independent judiciary, transparency, and fulfilling its purpose of non-violent resolution, then it fails as a rule of law, and becomes a rule by law. Just like the events that happened to the Colonists in 1776, and the many abuses that led to uprising... when the courts failed and General Gage took over. The primary purpose of the courts is equitable non-violent conflict resolution to the law. Its a pivotal pillar of civilized society, when people see it has failed, they may go for the brass verdict instead of volunteering themselves for a kafkaesque suicide court.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      Feel free to investigate all you want, if you personally find there to be convincing, non-circumstantial evidence that the dude was explicitly killed by openAI. People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party. This is a contrived description that could apply to any number of events, from a policeman dying to someone dying of cancer. Fanciful narratives aren't evidence, though. Evidence is something like: Sally saw someone shoot the dude.