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I was trained from the beginning of my career to do this, and trained to teach the same thing to the people reporting to me. It makes us all think harder, empow

I was trained from the beginning of my career to do this, and trained to teach the same thing to the people reporting to me. It makes us all think harder, empowers lower-level people to make an impact, etc. Recently, though, I had someone convince me that it's not necessarily the best organizational practice. Essentially, there are sometimes big, systemic, intractable problems that lower-level people might see but not have the perspective, experience, etc. to even begin coming up with a solution. Higher-level people might have the perspective and experience but not see those problems (especially as each layer of the hierarchy acts a filter or sugar-coating mechanism for bad news as it moves upwards). If you tell people not to report problems unless they have a solution, and summarily dismiss anyone who does so, some serious problems might just be left rotting. > What am I going to do if I agree with you? A reasonable response to this might actually be, "I don't know; isn't that why you get paid the big bucks and I don't?" Reporting problems with proposed solutions should be encouraged, but there shouldn't be a blanket statement of "Don't bring a me problem unless you have a proposed solution!" An executive can simply ask, "Do you have a proposal?" and if the answer is negative the executive can say, "I understand, interesting, thanks for reporting this. I'll keep it in mind / assign someone more senior on my staff to look into it / etc."

ranie93 2y ago
I wonder how the author would respond to your feedback: > Reporting problems and proposed solutions should be encouraged, but there shouldn't be a blanket statement of "Don't bring a me problem unless you have a proposed solution!" It's kind of meta because in this post itself you are employing a kind of complain-and-propose. Anyways I think your conclusion is entirely reasonable. I don't think blanket statements are most ever the solution, and I assume the author would agree!
- warner25 2y ago
  To be clear, in practice I think some organizational cultures just aggressively embrace this idea to the point of it being detrimental. I've heard statements with those exact words coming from executives, and I've seen people sort of squashed by executives in town hall-type forums for raising a problem without offering a solution. (In the line that you quoted, by the way, I just changed "and" to "with" for clarity.)
7bit 2y ago
> If you tell people not to report problems unless they have a solution, and summarily dismiss anyone who does so, some serious problems might just be left rotting. I would expand on that and say that only bad managers do so. They are paid for exactly that. Manage their people and remove the problems that make their work hard. Sure, if their direct reports come with a proposal already, that is great because they now what direction to go TK make them happy. But if the managers insist on their direct reports to report issues only with solutions, then why do they need the manager in the first place?
paulcole 2y ago
> Essentially, there are sometimes big, systemic, intractable problems that lower-level people might see but not have the perspective, experience, etc. to even begin coming up with a solution I disagree with this and it’s an excuse for people who don’t want to think. Which is fine, I guess. It’s everybody’s right to not want to think. But it doesn’t change the fact that in the vast majority of situations, coming up with a solution is possible. The trick is then to come up with one that’s slightly better and then slightly better and so on until you run into the limit of what you’re capable of. Challenge people to be creative. It’s a skill that can be developed with practice. The next time somebody says they can’t come up with a solution because of their low rank or whatever, try offering them $10k out of your own pocket to come up with any solution. Suddenly, I’ll bet, a solution comes to them!
- warner25 2y ago
  I mostly agree with you. I suppose we should distinguish between a "proposal" and a "solution." I guess a "solution" actually satisfies a set of constraints whereas a "proposal" could just be dead on arrival because it fails to satisfy one or more constraints. The lower-level person is probably not even aware of all the constraints, so whatever proposal they come up with likely isn't going to be a solution. Demanding that they come up with a throwaway proposal doesn't do a lot of good. Example: The school lunch program is failing to adequately feed students. The first-year teachers stuck with lunch duty see it, the students see it, etc. No doubt that they can come up with some proposal that involves spending more money on the lunch program, and they can even identify some other area to take the money from, but they don't necessarily see the big picture to know why that might not be possible (e.g. tax dollars or grant money can only be spent in certain ways) or what the negative effects might be (e.g. why money is currently being spent in that other area). This is another way I've seen people get squashed by executives. As people were trained to offer a proposal when reporting a problem, they did so, but then it gave the executive an opportunity to just focus on explaining why the proposal can't work instead of just listening and asking follow-up questions to better understand the problem.
  - paulcole 2y ago
    I mean it seems more like the underlying issue you have is with how people respond to proposed solutions rather than that they are asked to come up with a solution at all.
brandonbloom 2y ago
There is a huge spectrum from no proposal at all to a magic bullet on a silver platter. To some extent, the default and implicit proposal is: "You should something about it!". Which is markedly worse than "_We_ should do something about it.", and worse still than "Let's do something about it, here's how I can help..." Some other useful intermediate proposals include: - "Allow me and my team time to investigate a solution." - "I've organized my complaints into requirements for a solution. Please identify an expert to solve the problem." - "I've socialized these problems with ${people}, I recommend you speak to ${person} about ${topic} for next steps." Having said that, I agree that complaints can be counted as "votes" for which problems to solve in the future. The problem is that they are not one complaint = one vote. At the very least, the complainer's role and responsibilities need to be accounted for within the scope of the larger organizational goals.
- warner25 2y ago
  This is great; very mature organizational thinking.
karmakaze 2y ago
It depends on the organization or the team/reporting structure you find yourself in. After a few instances of thinking things out deeply, reporting both the problem and solution, only to have them sincerely acknowledged then never acted upon isn't a great pattern worth repeating. What seems to work better in those situations is to 1. complain, 2. chip away at the problem in the open, 3. socialize suggestions, 4. make small inline changes toward a north star which solves the problem. Basically change the current system to bring the solution closer to the point that someone pulls the trigger and says let's get this done.
creer 2y ago
This is also a common administrative punishment method: "You seem to understand that problem. Why don't you study it more in depth and return a proposal on what to do about it". Unsaid: "in addition to your current workload." Also unsaid "that will learn you to be a smartass". (Which is okay if it's a problem you DO want to make your life about - but still with the understanding that this new assignement was meant as punishement and is not what will get you promoted. At least not unless it's spectacularly successful.)

ranie93 2y ago

I wonder how the author would respond to your feedback: > Reporting problems and proposed solutions should be encouraged, but there shouldn't be a blanket statement of "Don't bring a me problem unless you have a proposed solution!" It's kind of meta because in this post itself you are employing a kind of complain-and-propose. Anyways I think your conclusion is entirely reasonable. I don't think blanket statements are most ever the solution, and I assume the author would agree!

warner25 2y ago
To be clear, in practice I think some organizational cultures just aggressively embrace this idea to the point of it being detrimental. I've heard statements with those exact words coming from executives, and I've seen people sort of squashed by executives in town hall-type forums for raising a problem without offering a solution. (In the line that you quoted, by the way, I just changed "and" to "with" for clarity.)

7bit 2y ago

> If you tell people not to report problems unless they have a solution, and summarily dismiss anyone who does so, some serious problems might just be left rotting. I would expand on that and say that only bad managers do so. They are paid for exactly that. Manage their people and remove the problems that make their work hard. Sure, if their direct reports come with a proposal already, that is great because they now what direction to go TK make them happy. But if the managers insist on their direct reports to report issues only with solutions, then why do they need the manager in the first place?

paulcole 2y ago

> Essentially, there are sometimes big, systemic, intractable problems that lower-level people might see but not have the perspective, experience, etc. to even begin coming up with a solution I disagree with this and it’s an excuse for people who don’t want to think. Which is fine, I guess. It’s everybody’s right to not want to think. But it doesn’t change the fact that in the vast majority of situations, coming up with a solution is possible. The trick is then to come up with one that’s slightly better and then slightly better and so on until you run into the limit of what you’re capable of. Challenge people to be creative. It’s a skill that can be developed with practice. The next time somebody says they can’t come up with a solution because of their low rank or whatever, try offering them $10k out of your own pocket to come up with any solution. Suddenly, I’ll bet, a solution comes to them!

warner25 2y ago
I mostly agree with you. I suppose we should distinguish between a "proposal" and a "solution." I guess a "solution" actually satisfies a set of constraints whereas a "proposal" could just be dead on arrival because it fails to satisfy one or more constraints. The lower-level person is probably not even aware of all the constraints, so whatever proposal they come up with likely isn't going to be a solution. Demanding that they come up with a throwaway proposal doesn't do a lot of good. Example: The school lunch program is failing to adequately feed students. The first-year teachers stuck with lunch duty see it, the students see it, etc. No doubt that they can come up with some proposal that involves spending more money on the lunch program, and they can even identify some other area to take the money from, but they don't necessarily see the big picture to know why that might not be possible (e.g. tax dollars or grant money can only be spent in certain ways) or what the negative effects might be (e.g. why money is currently being spent in that other area). This is another way I've seen people get squashed by executives. As people were trained to offer a proposal when reporting a problem, they did so, but then it gave the executive an opportunity to just focus on explaining why the proposal can't work instead of just listening and asking follow-up questions to better understand the problem.
- paulcole 2y ago
  I mean it seems more like the underlying issue you have is with how people respond to proposed solutions rather than that they are asked to come up with a solution at all.

brandonbloom 2y ago

There is a huge spectrum from no proposal at all to a magic bullet on a silver platter. To some extent, the default and implicit proposal is: "You should something about it!". Which is markedly worse than "_We_ should do something about it.", and worse still than "Let's do something about it, here's how I can help..." Some other useful intermediate proposals include: - "Allow me and my team time to investigate a solution." - "I've organized my complaints into requirements for a solution. Please identify an expert to solve the problem." - "I've socialized these problems with ${people}, I recommend you speak to ${person} about ${topic} for next steps." Having said that, I agree that complaints can be counted as "votes" for which problems to solve in the future. The problem is that they are not one complaint = one vote. At the very least, the complainer's role and responsibilities need to be accounted for within the scope of the larger organizational goals.

warner25 2y ago
This is great; very mature organizational thinking.

karmakaze 2y ago

It depends on the organization or the team/reporting structure you find yourself in. After a few instances of thinking things out deeply, reporting both the problem and solution, only to have them sincerely acknowledged then never acted upon isn't a great pattern worth repeating. What seems to work better in those situations is to 1. complain, 2. chip away at the problem in the open, 3. socialize suggestions, 4. make small inline changes toward a north star which solves the problem. Basically change the current system to bring the solution closer to the point that someone pulls the trigger and says let's get this done.

creer 2y ago

This is also a common administrative punishment method: "You seem to understand that problem. Why don't you study it more in depth and return a proposal on what to do about it". Unsaid: "in addition to your current workload." Also unsaid "that will learn you to be a smartass". (Which is okay if it's a problem you DO want to make your life about - but still with the understanding that this new assignement was meant as punishement and is not what will get you promoted. At least not unless it's spectacularly successful.)