4 ms·

PolyDye: Full color printer mod for Marlin 3D printers

137 points by utopcell 2y ago

simgt 2y ago
The images and video you're looking for are here: https://hackaday.com/2024/12/28/full-color-3d-printing-with-polydye-and-existing-inkjet-cartridges/ https://hackaday.com/2024/12/28/full-color-3d-printing-with-...
- slau 2y ago
  In this case, the real work originated in Michael’s TeachingTech video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1wz8S9rTI8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1wz8S9rTI8
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    The real work originated with the PolyDye project. TeachingTech isn't a bad channel, but he mostly demonstrates tech invented by other people. I'm not sure I understand the point of commenting a link to his video that is already linked within the first paragraph of the linked article.
    - slau 2y ago
      You're absolutely right; the real credit goes to the PolyDye project. However, it's TeachingTech's video that made PolyDye explode in the last week. Hackaday is just regurgitating what is explained in TT's video. I guess I'm just a bit tired of that page, and what amounts to basically blog spam.
    - undersuit 2y ago
      >but he mostly demonstrates tech invented by other people. In the video it's stated that the PolyDye creator is a 4 year patron(Patreon?) to TeachingTech and it's a collaboration for the demonstration. AND the linked has changed to the PolyDye github instead of the blog spam.
tiku 2y ago
Very interesting step. I wonder what will become the standard for color 3d printing. Mixing 3 base colors in a mixing chamber probably will waste a lot of purge filament.
- gunalx 2y ago
  Mixing filaments has been tested and wastes an enormous amount of filament, and has accuracy issues with color and deposition (like almost all regular multicolor getting clean seperstions or transitions is hard)
simonjgreen 2y ago
I recall seeing a similar idea to this on a 3D printer that used sheets of paper for the layers. It would (workflow from memory) print with high saturation on to a stack of paper then drag them in to an aligned stack while cutting the layers out using a drag knife and gluing them. I wish I could recall who made the thing, but it was quite impressive. Main target use case was architectural work.
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  I remember this, the coolest part was that the feedstock was just glue, inkjet cartridges and A4 printer paper
- simonjgreen 2y ago
  This was the one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcor_Technologies_Ltd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcor_Technologies_Ltd Seems they went out of business. Video here https://youtu.be/2DRJ2oUK4-E https://youtu.be/2DRJ2oUK4-E
- mk_stjames 2y ago
  3D printing via paper sheet stacks was one of the first 'rapid prototype' technologies. It was around in the automative industry at least in the mid 1980's, and was called LOM - Laminated Object Manufacturing. The machine I saw would unroll glue-backed paper onto a plate, laser-cut the layer into it along with laser cutting a consistent grid pattern everywhere outside the part. Then repeat for all the layers. This took forever (literally days for a big part) but when it was done you would get this giant block that felt like essentially a glue-up wood countertop. You would then bust away all the cube pieces on the outside, revealing the 3D part inside. The part would have this grid line pattern on it from where the waste cube cuts intersected the final part. You could then varnish the part and you'd have a pretty much rock solid, heavy reproduction straight from a computer model. I know that these were used for vac-forming parts straight off them, and also as patterns for sand castings. It was interesting as this tech has been pretty much erased, it's even hard to find pictures of it these days. Anyway. I don't ever recall ever seeing one that printed color onto the paper however, but I'm sure this was something that was experimented with. Here is a 1991 paper describing the tech, which had already been around for a few years by then I think: https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/95bf7a6d-8ea9-4a47-bc81-4a3dd320a8e4/content https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/server/api/core/bitstrea...
iancmceachern 2y ago
This is similar to the RizeOne, I have one. Tjmhe company went under but they're still supported by some suppliers. https://www.dynamism.com/rize/rize-one.html?srsltid=AfmBOoooC7wbqTLks-YZFrdNGZ000az4x4esliLHYHuh2goybBSqb30a https://www.dynamism.com/rize/rize-one.html?srsltid=AfmBOooo...
tommiegannert 2y ago
That's cool, and certainly more accurate than blending filament. Anyone have data on layer adhesion? (I have a spool of Royal Blue Prusament that has the worst layer adhesion ever, for some reason. Fresh in my mind. :)
- slau 2y ago
  If I remember correctly, Royal Blue is a PLA blend. Are you using that profile or just Prusament PLA? The temperatures are significantly different (25°C difference), and so are the speeds (20-30% difference).
wtcactus 2y ago
This seems the actual future of color 3D printing. Filament manufacturers will develop increasingly better translucent filaments and 3D printer manufacturers will seamlessly integrate the method on the printers. I have a Bambu P1S with the multi filament upgrade, and while great for several motives (keeping 4 spools at hand dried and ready), I never use it for actual multi material printing due to it’s slowness and wasteness.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah the AMS is a nice extra but not at all practical for most usecases. I use it sometimes for badges with text, you only need a few layer changes then which makes it ok. But big multicolour objects nope.
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  Doesn't Bambu have "Purge to infill" in its Orca fork?
  - wtcactus 2y ago
    I never did try that. But I'm figuring out it needs a fairly big model (or several copies) to work properly and for the filament change time to be acceptable. All in all, other than completely changing filament after a specific layer, I don't see the shortcome outweighing the benefits. But in this case I've mentioned it becomes very handy. For instance, to print a PLA 1st layer for bead adhesion and then print ABS on top of it.
  - PrivateButts 2y ago
    It can help a bit but it's not a magic bullet. You're usually not using that much plastic in infill to do a full purge, and the current implementation doesn't add more infill if there's more purge needed. Toolchangers stand to benefit the most from it since they only need to purge enough to prime the nozzle again. There's also a side problem I've noticed with purge to infill, it's way less forgiving if your filament has too much colorant or you have your purge amounts wrong. Having a perfect print that had it's colors bleed sucks.
- 2y ago
nullc 2y ago
Anyone taking bets on how long until the cease and desist from stratasys rolls in?
wkat4242 2y ago
I really want this on my bambu <3
- luma 2y ago
  One of the downsides to a mostly-closed system like Bambu, it makes adding solutions like this difficult.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    True but I mean I wish Bambu would bring something like this as an option :) I'm very happy with bambu. I love 3D printing but I hate messing with 3D printers, constantly tuning and fixing everything. I really despise that stuff. So bambu is perfect for me. I would never install such a kit anyway. I just want to buy a printer with it and for it to just work. I know many other people at the makerspace who love tinkering with their printers but it's not for me. Until I got my bambu printers my prints were pretty bad because I didn't put any effort into my printers. Always having misaligned beds etc. I just can't be bothered with that shit. I just used really thick rafts to make things slightly more manageable. They mostly have creality and prusa ones.
    - luma 2y ago
      > I wish Bambu would bring something like this as an option And that's what you're left with, wishing a company would meet your needs. With a Prusa, you just go ahead and add the thing and tinker as you wish. Modern Mk4 printers have all the reliability features you are familiar with from Bambu, with the notable exception that they aren't uploading your GCODE to a chinese cloud provider.
      - zanderwohl 2y ago
        And the notable exception that they cost 1.5x as much for the same capabilities.
        Agree2468 2y ago
SillyUsername 2y ago
Very steep price, for not much more you could get a Bambu A1 Mini and AMS
- utopcell 2y ago
  $200 seems quite cheap for full-color capability. The two technologies are not really comparable.
utopcell 2y ago
Great project. This seems to be bringing the technology of the DaVinci Color [mini] printers from XYZprinting to the OSS world. Those 3D printers were quite expensive.
seltzered_ 2y ago
Is it possible to use this as an alternative 2D paper printer as well? Or is the position granularity too large? Asking as there's been many discussions over the years desiring an open source paper printer and while this would be a rather slow and cumbersome approach it could be useful for those who do 3d printing a fair amount and print to paper on rare occasions.

137 points by utopcell 2y ago

The images and video you're looking for are here: https://hackaday.com/2024/12/28/full-color-3d-printing-with-polydye-and-existing-inkjet-cartridges/ https://hackaday.com/2024/12/28/full-color-3d-printing-with-...

slau 2y ago
In this case, the real work originated in Michael’s TeachingTech video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1wz8S9rTI8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1wz8S9rTI8
- Suppafly 2y ago
  The real work originated with the PolyDye project. TeachingTech isn't a bad channel, but he mostly demonstrates tech invented by other people. I'm not sure I understand the point of commenting a link to his video that is already linked within the first paragraph of the linked article.
  - slau 2y ago
    You're absolutely right; the real credit goes to the PolyDye project. However, it's TeachingTech's video that made PolyDye explode in the last week. Hackaday is just regurgitating what is explained in TT's video. I guess I'm just a bit tired of that page, and what amounts to basically blog spam.
  - undersuit 2y ago
    >but he mostly demonstrates tech invented by other people. In the video it's stated that the PolyDye creator is a 4 year patron(Patreon?) to TeachingTech and it's a collaboration for the demonstration. AND the linked has changed to the PolyDye github instead of the blog spam.

tiku 2y ago

Very interesting step. I wonder what will become the standard for color 3d printing. Mixing 3 base colors in a mixing chamber probably will waste a lot of purge filament.

gunalx 2y ago
Mixing filaments has been tested and wastes an enormous amount of filament, and has accuracy issues with color and deposition (like almost all regular multicolor getting clean seperstions or transitions is hard)

simonjgreen 2y ago

I recall seeing a similar idea to this on a 3D printer that used sheets of paper for the layers. It would (workflow from memory) print with high saturation on to a stack of paper then drag them in to an aligned stack while cutting the layers out using a drag knife and gluing them. I wish I could recall who made the thing, but it was quite impressive. Main target use case was architectural work.

iancmceachern 2y ago
I remember this, the coolest part was that the feedstock was just glue, inkjet cartridges and A4 printer paper
simonjgreen 2y ago
This was the one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcor_Technologies_Ltd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcor_Technologies_Ltd Seems they went out of business. Video here https://youtu.be/2DRJ2oUK4-E https://youtu.be/2DRJ2oUK4-E
mk_stjames 2y ago
3D printing via paper sheet stacks was one of the first 'rapid prototype' technologies. It was around in the automative industry at least in the mid 1980's, and was called LOM - Laminated Object Manufacturing. The machine I saw would unroll glue-backed paper onto a plate, laser-cut the layer into it along with laser cutting a consistent grid pattern everywhere outside the part. Then repeat for all the layers. This took forever (literally days for a big part) but when it was done you would get this giant block that felt like essentially a glue-up wood countertop. You would then bust away all the cube pieces on the outside, revealing the 3D part inside. The part would have this grid line pattern on it from where the waste cube cuts intersected the final part. You could then varnish the part and you'd have a pretty much rock solid, heavy reproduction straight from a computer model. I know that these were used for vac-forming parts straight off them, and also as patterns for sand castings. It was interesting as this tech has been pretty much erased, it's even hard to find pictures of it these days. Anyway. I don't ever recall ever seeing one that printed color onto the paper however, but I'm sure this was something that was experimented with. Here is a 1991 paper describing the tech, which had already been around for a few years by then I think: https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/95bf7a6d-8ea9-4a47-bc81-4a3dd320a8e4/content https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/server/api/core/bitstrea...

iancmceachern 2y ago

This is similar to the RizeOne, I have one. Tjmhe company went under but they're still supported by some suppliers. https://www.dynamism.com/rize/rize-one.html?srsltid=AfmBOoooC7wbqTLks-YZFrdNGZ000az4x4esliLHYHuh2goybBSqb30a https://www.dynamism.com/rize/rize-one.html?srsltid=AfmBOooo...

tommiegannert 2y ago

That's cool, and certainly more accurate than blending filament. Anyone have data on layer adhesion? (I have a spool of Royal Blue Prusament that has the worst layer adhesion ever, for some reason. Fresh in my mind. :)

slau 2y ago
If I remember correctly, Royal Blue is a PLA blend. Are you using that profile or just Prusament PLA? The temperatures are significantly different (25°C difference), and so are the speeds (20-30% difference).

wtcactus 2y ago

This seems the actual future of color 3D printing. Filament manufacturers will develop increasingly better translucent filaments and 3D printer manufacturers will seamlessly integrate the method on the printers. I have a Bambu P1S with the multi filament upgrade, and while great for several motives (keeping 4 spools at hand dried and ready), I never use it for actual multi material printing due to it’s slowness and wasteness.

wkat4242 2y ago
Yeah the AMS is a nice extra but not at all practical for most usecases. I use it sometimes for badges with text, you only need a few layer changes then which makes it ok. But big multicolour objects nope.
CodeWriter23 2y ago
Doesn't Bambu have "Purge to infill" in its Orca fork?
- wtcactus 2y ago
  I never did try that. But I'm figuring out it needs a fairly big model (or several copies) to work properly and for the filament change time to be acceptable. All in all, other than completely changing filament after a specific layer, I don't see the shortcome outweighing the benefits. But in this case I've mentioned it becomes very handy. For instance, to print a PLA 1st layer for bead adhesion and then print ABS on top of it.
- PrivateButts 2y ago
  It can help a bit but it's not a magic bullet. You're usually not using that much plastic in infill to do a full purge, and the current implementation doesn't add more infill if there's more purge needed. Toolchangers stand to benefit the most from it since they only need to purge enough to prime the nozzle again. There's also a side problem I've noticed with purge to infill, it's way less forgiving if your filament has too much colorant or you have your purge amounts wrong. Having a perfect print that had it's colors bleed sucks.
2y ago

nullc 2y ago

Anyone taking bets on how long until the cease and desist from stratasys rolls in?

wkat4242 2y ago

I really want this on my bambu <3

luma 2y ago
One of the downsides to a mostly-closed system like Bambu, it makes adding solutions like this difficult.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  True but I mean I wish Bambu would bring something like this as an option :) I'm very happy with bambu. I love 3D printing but I hate messing with 3D printers, constantly tuning and fixing everything. I really despise that stuff. So bambu is perfect for me. I would never install such a kit anyway. I just want to buy a printer with it and for it to just work. I know many other people at the makerspace who love tinkering with their printers but it's not for me. Until I got my bambu printers my prints were pretty bad because I didn't put any effort into my printers. Always having misaligned beds etc. I just can't be bothered with that shit. I just used really thick rafts to make things slightly more manageable. They mostly have creality and prusa ones.
  - luma 2y ago
    > I wish Bambu would bring something like this as an option And that's what you're left with, wishing a company would meet your needs. With a Prusa, you just go ahead and add the thing and tinker as you wish. Modern Mk4 printers have all the reliability features you are familiar with from Bambu, with the notable exception that they aren't uploading your GCODE to a chinese cloud provider.
    - zanderwohl 2y ago
      And the notable exception that they cost 1.5x as much for the same capabilities.
      - Agree2468 2y ago

SillyUsername 2y ago

Very steep price, for not much more you could get a Bambu A1 Mini and AMS

utopcell 2y ago
$200 seems quite cheap for full-color capability. The two technologies are not really comparable.

utopcell 2y ago

Great project. This seems to be bringing the technology of the DaVinci Color [mini] printers from XYZprinting to the OSS world. Those 3D printers were quite expensive.

seltzered_ 2y ago

Is it possible to use this as an alternative 2D paper printer as well? Or is the position granularity too large? Asking as there's been many discussions over the years desiring an open source paper printer and while this would be a rather slow and cumbersome approach it could be useful for those who do 3d printing a fair amount and print to paper on rare occasions.