4 ms·

I worry about let's plays (especially let's plays without commentary). They pretty clearly exist in a "yes, this is copyright infringement but yes, they are gen

I worry about let's plays (especially let's plays without commentary). They pretty clearly exist in a "yes, this is copyright infringement but yes, they are generally considered positive for a game" space. The moment some game creator decides to test this will get very interesting. Not good interesting.

ferbivore 2y ago
Why do you think a video capture of a computer program would infringe the copyrights of the program's creators?
- yuliyp 2y ago
  A video game contains text, images, videos, and/or audio which are copyrightable, even if the game mechanics nor the player's decisions themselves are not copyrighted by the creators of the game.
- seventhtiger 2y ago
  Games are incidentally computer programs, but what's relevant is that they're audiovisual content. Video capture of video would infringe on copyrights which is what video games are.
do_not_redeem 2y ago
It's not immediately clear to me that this is true. Video games are designed to be played interactively. Streaming a single playthrough via a non-interactive medium strikes me as transformative. Would you say a screen capture of Microsoft Excel is also copyright infringement? If not, what would you say is the legal basis for treating that differently than a video game?
- Uehreka 2y ago
  > Video games are designed to be played interactively. Streaming a single playthrough via a non-interactive medium strikes me as transformative. This is one of those areas where principles like “fair use” and “transformative use” don’t really matter, since we’re talking about YouTube de facto policy, not the law. If YouTube decides to honor the claims, then that’s what happens. And YouTube generally errs hard in the direction of rightsholders just to be safe.
- Jarwain 2y ago
  Some video games are a fairly linear progression where observing a single playthrough can give up the bulk of the story. Reading a book is interactive; you imagine the narrative/interpretive voice as you go through it. You might read a phrase one way where someone else might read it differently. Listening to someone read a book removes that difference but still conveys most of the plot. Aaand Idk if book reads are on YouTube but typically people pay for audio books and some revenue goes to the author
- onionisafruit 2y ago
  Years ago somebody at Kinko’s refused to make copies of a draft software manual because it had screenshots of our software’s Windows interface. She said it would violate Microsoft’s copyright. This led to a fun discussion of how copyright on rectangles would even work. Obviously this wasn’t Kinko’s official stance. Just one obstinate, over zealous employee. Ironically, it was a bible software manual and the screenshots she looked at accidentally had text from a copyrighted bible translation. So she was right that those screenshots had copyright issues, but for the wrong reason.
  - webmaven 2y ago
    > Obviously this wasn’t Kinko’s official stance. Just one obstinate, over zealous employee. You might think that's obvious, but you'd be wrong. Software publishers were cracking down on duplicating manuals as a means of trying to curb software piracy. I can practically guarantee that the "obstinate employee" was given clear direction by their manager on the subject. Though you do have to keep in mind that depending on when exactly this happened, Kinko's might still have been a collection of hundreds of largely autonomous regional partnerships, each of which could set their own policy.
    - jasomill 2y ago
      I once had a Kinko's employee, in consultation with the manager on duty, refuse to slice the binding off a textbook because "copyright". They were, however, willing to three-hole punch the resulting pages if I removed the binding myself. Later that day at another, nearby Kinko's, an employee, who happened to be the manager on duty, cut and punched the pages with no questions asked other than "have you seen our selection of binders and report covers?" This was around 2008, so many years after the corporate consolidation, subsequent acquisition, and rebranding as FedEx Kinko's.
- mysteria 2y ago
  > Would you say a screen capture of Microsoft Excel is also copyright infringement? Yeah it is. However most uses of an Excel screenshot would probably be considered fair use, and Microsoft probably doesn't care for 99% of use cases. If you look at Wikipedia's Excel article they have more details on the legal rationale behind their use of a screenshot [1]. It looks like Microsoft allows the use of product screenshots in certain cases as well. I also took a quick look at an Excel textbook I had on my shelf and it specifically stated in the copyright notice that they had permission from Microsoft to publish the screenshots used within. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Excel.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Excel.png
- ThatPlayer 2y ago
  This isn't anything new and unique to video games. Generally this is considered a performance. No different than copyright protecting a performance of sheet music or a play. Even dance choreography can be copyrighted.
- ternnoburn 2y ago
  Why wouldn't a screenshot of excel be a copyright infringement? It contains copyrighted visual design and text elements. That said, it would be absolutely petty and foolish to pursue any action against it. Games contain art, music, sound fx, text/story, motion design, and other elements that are copyrighted. Again, it would be petty and foolish to pursue it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Wohlf 2y ago
Already happened a few times. Japanese streamers have to ask for explicit permission to stream games so they play a lot of western games that allow it, Nintendo didn't allow let's plays for a while, and a game developer didn't like a popular youtuber (pewdiepie I think) and did takedowns of said youtuber playing their game.
namrog84 2y ago
My first very ever attempt at making a let plays video. Immediately got taken down for copyright infringement. Completely destroyed my desire to ever make a let's play video again. And it was for a 10+ year old game. It is unfortunate
- jandrese 2y ago
  It was for the music wasn't it? The music industry is extremely efficient at flagging videos to claim the revenue.
delroth 2y ago
Most game studios these days - including Nintendo - explicitly provide guidance and licensing terms for content creators. You can for example check out https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index.html https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index... > As long as you follow some basic rules, we will not object to your use of gameplay footage and/or screenshots captured from games for which Nintendo owns the copyright ("Nintendo Game Content") in the content you create for appropriate video and image sharing sites. To help guide you, we prepared the following guidelines: [...] The legal gray area definitely still exists for many of the smaller/indie game studios, but this kind of licensing is more common than not today.
deletedie 2y ago
Nintendo (and some others) used to do this in the early days of Let's Play. People stopped doing Nintendo Let's Plays for a while until Nintendo somewhat relented.

ferbivore 2y ago

Why do you think a video capture of a computer program would infringe the copyrights of the program's creators?

yuliyp 2y ago
A video game contains text, images, videos, and/or audio which are copyrightable, even if the game mechanics nor the player's decisions themselves are not copyrighted by the creators of the game.
seventhtiger 2y ago
Games are incidentally computer programs, but what's relevant is that they're audiovisual content. Video capture of video would infringe on copyrights which is what video games are.

do_not_redeem 2y ago

It's not immediately clear to me that this is true. Video games are designed to be played interactively. Streaming a single playthrough via a non-interactive medium strikes me as transformative. Would you say a screen capture of Microsoft Excel is also copyright infringement? If not, what would you say is the legal basis for treating that differently than a video game?

Uehreka 2y ago
> Video games are designed to be played interactively. Streaming a single playthrough via a non-interactive medium strikes me as transformative. This is one of those areas where principles like “fair use” and “transformative use” don’t really matter, since we’re talking about YouTube de facto policy, not the law. If YouTube decides to honor the claims, then that’s what happens. And YouTube generally errs hard in the direction of rightsholders just to be safe.
Jarwain 2y ago
Some video games are a fairly linear progression where observing a single playthrough can give up the bulk of the story. Reading a book is interactive; you imagine the narrative/interpretive voice as you go through it. You might read a phrase one way where someone else might read it differently. Listening to someone read a book removes that difference but still conveys most of the plot. Aaand Idk if book reads are on YouTube but typically people pay for audio books and some revenue goes to the author
onionisafruit 2y ago
Years ago somebody at Kinko’s refused to make copies of a draft software manual because it had screenshots of our software’s Windows interface. She said it would violate Microsoft’s copyright. This led to a fun discussion of how copyright on rectangles would even work. Obviously this wasn’t Kinko’s official stance. Just one obstinate, over zealous employee. Ironically, it was a bible software manual and the screenshots she looked at accidentally had text from a copyrighted bible translation. So she was right that those screenshots had copyright issues, but for the wrong reason.
- webmaven 2y ago
  > Obviously this wasn’t Kinko’s official stance. Just one obstinate, over zealous employee. You might think that's obvious, but you'd be wrong. Software publishers were cracking down on duplicating manuals as a means of trying to curb software piracy. I can practically guarantee that the "obstinate employee" was given clear direction by their manager on the subject. Though you do have to keep in mind that depending on when exactly this happened, Kinko's might still have been a collection of hundreds of largely autonomous regional partnerships, each of which could set their own policy.
  - jasomill 2y ago
    I once had a Kinko's employee, in consultation with the manager on duty, refuse to slice the binding off a textbook because "copyright". They were, however, willing to three-hole punch the resulting pages if I removed the binding myself. Later that day at another, nearby Kinko's, an employee, who happened to be the manager on duty, cut and punched the pages with no questions asked other than "have you seen our selection of binders and report covers?" This was around 2008, so many years after the corporate consolidation, subsequent acquisition, and rebranding as FedEx Kinko's.
mysteria 2y ago
> Would you say a screen capture of Microsoft Excel is also copyright infringement? Yeah it is. However most uses of an Excel screenshot would probably be considered fair use, and Microsoft probably doesn't care for 99% of use cases. If you look at Wikipedia's Excel article they have more details on the legal rationale behind their use of a screenshot [1]. It looks like Microsoft allows the use of product screenshots in certain cases as well. I also took a quick look at an Excel textbook I had on my shelf and it specifically stated in the copyright notice that they had permission from Microsoft to publish the screenshots used within. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Excel.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Excel.png
ThatPlayer 2y ago
This isn't anything new and unique to video games. Generally this is considered a performance. No different than copyright protecting a performance of sheet music or a play. Even dance choreography can be copyrighted.
ternnoburn 2y ago
Why wouldn't a screenshot of excel be a copyright infringement? It contains copyrighted visual design and text elements. That said, it would be absolutely petty and foolish to pursue any action against it. Games contain art, music, sound fx, text/story, motion design, and other elements that are copyrighted. Again, it would be petty and foolish to pursue it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Wohlf 2y ago

Already happened a few times. Japanese streamers have to ask for explicit permission to stream games so they play a lot of western games that allow it, Nintendo didn't allow let's plays for a while, and a game developer didn't like a popular youtuber (pewdiepie I think) and did takedowns of said youtuber playing their game.

namrog84 2y ago

My first very ever attempt at making a let plays video. Immediately got taken down for copyright infringement. Completely destroyed my desire to ever make a let's play video again. And it was for a 10+ year old game. It is unfortunate

jandrese 2y ago
It was for the music wasn't it? The music industry is extremely efficient at flagging videos to claim the revenue.

delroth 2y ago

Most game studios these days - including Nintendo - explicitly provide guidance and licensing terms for content creators. You can for example check out https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index.html https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index... > As long as you follow some basic rules, we will not object to your use of gameplay footage and/or screenshots captured from games for which Nintendo owns the copyright ("Nintendo Game Content") in the content you create for appropriate video and image sharing sites. To help guide you, we prepared the following guidelines: [...] The legal gray area definitely still exists for many of the smaller/indie game studios, but this kind of licensing is more common than not today.

deletedie 2y ago

Nintendo (and some others) used to do this in the early days of Let's Play. People stopped doing Nintendo Let's Plays for a while until Nintendo somewhat relented.