6 ms·

I used to be heavily into lucid dreaming back in the early 00s along with others in the Dream Views forum. That was a wild time with people making new ways to i

by speff 2y ago

I used to be heavily into lucid dreaming back in the early 00s along with others in the Dream Views forum. That was a wild time with people making new ways to induce a lucid dreaming (with techniques usually ending in -ILD). If you told us this back then > This research could lead to wearable devices programmed with algorithms that detect opportune moments to induce lucidity in people as they sleep -we would’ve lost our minds. Above most other recent inventions, this really feels like the future

hasbot 2y ago
Why did you stop? Did you gain any insights from your experience. I think many of us nerds are intrigued by the concept of lucid dreaming but haven't actually explored the space. I skimmed a book on the subject in the mid 80's, but only tried the techniques a couple of times. Oddly, I still remember a couple of my lucid dreams.
- speff 2y ago
  At the time, the two most popular ways for getting lucid in a dream was 1. Doing a reality check habitually in real life. Eventually you'll start doing it in dreams and have it fail. This _usually_ kicks you into lucid territory 2. Estimating when you're going to be in a REM state and setting a timer to wake yourself up. Then, after gaining consciousness fully, trying to make your body go to sleep while your mind is awake Can you spot why I stopped doing it after a period of time? It end up feeling like a lot of work every day just for a chance (a low one in my and most people's cases) of having a lucid dream. Sleeping was no longer a passive, let's-relax type of activity. I just wanted to reclaim that period of time in a way. I think my biggest takeaway from my lucid dreams was just the feeling of being in one. It's hard to describe, but the rush that comes along with the realization you can do anything you want is quite exhilarating.
  - CPLX 2y ago
    What are examples of reality checks.
    - jimmaswell 2y ago
      A few are: Look at a digital time twice, in a dream the numbers will usually change. Try to read fine print. Perfect vision with no glasses if you wear them.
    - lsiclait 2y ago
      I would just ask myself “Am I dreaming?” When I’m awake, I immediately answer “no,” but when I’m asleep, I’m not sure. That’s enough to know that I’m not awake.
    - smokel 2y ago
      You could simply look this up on the internet, but for those of us who are exceptionally lazy, here goes: Every now and then, say every hour, or whenever you think of it, look around you. Try to check if what you see is real. Are things floating around and is gravity not working as expected? When you look over your shoulder and back, did the room change color, and did the table just turn into a tree? Try to touch something with your hand. Do you not feel any resistance when your hand drops through the couch? If so, you are probably dreaming.
    - jgilias 2y ago
      Two that I used was: 1. Trying to put your index finger through the other palm. In a dream this works, it just goes through; 2. Press your nose closed and continue breathing normally. In a dream this works. I stopped for a similar reason as the other poster. It really interfered with my ability to get the much needed rest while sleeping. It doesn’t come free (but is awesome when it works)
      - speff 2y ago
        Nice - these two were my go-tos as well. The nose-plug one felt especially weird once you realized what was happening.
        jorgesborges 2y ago
        Mine as well -- nose-plug was most effective but also least discrete and most awkward to do in public. Checking a clock was my second go-to..
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    I can reliably meditate myself into a lucid dream if you're interested in learning the technique. You've probably encounteted it before. I also just regularly find myself in lucid dreams because I'm constantly looking for discrepancies and gain control the moment I find one. The basic technique is just to meditate to sleep by counting your breaths, while not moving at all. It is really hard to pull off until you get used to it, but with some dedication you can get decent success. If you do it right, your body enters sleep paralysis while your brain is still awake, and you get dropped into a dream.
    - speff 2y ago
      Counting your breaths seems like a better way to do it. When I tried wake-induced LD'ing, I didn't have any strategy in mind when it came to what I should be thinking of. When I was right at the boundary of dreaming, my thoughts would start racing and I would usually snap myself awake. Your advice would likely have saved me from a few failures.
      - soulofmischief 2y ago
        Yeah, I've had some success with WILDs, which I'd typically practice on a Saturday or Sunday morning, but ultimately it was a crapshoot compared to just meditating myself to sleep. I'd also recommend lying on your back when attempting to lucid dream, it always made it much more likely to occur for me, along with sleep paralysis. There is some unexplored physiological reason for this, but it's real and many sleep experts have found the same results. I would also recommend not getting caught up in losing track of the count, simply starting over from 0 the moment you realize that you lost your place. I have severe chronic insomnia, ADHD, tourettic OCD and a predisposition for body-focused repetitive behaviors so if I can meditate myself to sleep, I'm pretty sure anyone can with some practice. The reason why I can't do it every night and "beat" insomnia is two-fold: One, because it paradoxically aggravates sleep avoidance for me. It's an excruciating experience spending 30-60 minutes lying completely still while alarm bells are going off in my head, paired with intense urges commanding me to scratch an itch or adjust a limb, and it's anything but meditative until the very moment sleep paralysis kicks in and my body goes numb. Two, it usually puts me into sleep paralysis which is just rolling the dice for a metric ton of adrenaline to get released during a paralysis hallucination. I've had sleep paralysis encounters keep me up for the next few days, shit gives me the creeps.
- macNchz 2y ago
  I was casually into this stuff like twenty years ago–read the forums, tried various techniques etc. I did have a bit of real success with it, also having some lucid dreams that are memorable years later, however I didn't actually like the experience of consistently remembering lots of details from my dreams, which was, I think, most of why I stopped. At the time, at least, the recommended starting point was dream journaling–writing down everything you can remember as soon as you wake up. Practicing that even for a few days has the effect of helping you retain quite a bit more detail from your dreams. It wasn't so much that I had unpleasant dreams as it was that remembering them made the night seem somehow less restful, as though I needed the relatively blank gap of sleep in the filmstrip of my memory to be able to wake up with a clear head.
replete 2y ago
I found another method: after waking up in the morning (with time to doze off again), nicotine pouch under the gum just after the heavy breathing starts. Super vivid lucid dreams, with obvious gotchas of using nicotine
- jamal-kumar 2y ago
  That sounds like a stupid way to suffocate and die on something in your sleep but it does affect a neurochemical (acetylcholine) which are implicated in how dreams and the entire sleep/wake cycle work. There's safer alternatives in my mind, 'oneirogics' [1] as I remember them being called, which affect the same neurotransmitters with none of the horrible addiction or choking risk - can be as simple as some ancient shamanic technique one researcher in central america told me, which was a maracuya leaf placed in your pillow to remind you in your dream of the distinct smell from the waking world that you're dreaming so you may control it [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneirogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneirogen
  - prophesi 2y ago
    AFAIK galantamine is the only drug with actual studies[0] for inducing lucidity. Participants would practice dream recall and reality checks each day, and fall asleep after reciting lucid dream affirmations. Then be awoken in the middle of the night to take galantamine, and fall back asleep while visualizing a continuation of the dream they were in last. Anecdotally, I become lucid whenever I take it without doing the rest of the study's rituals, but I've worked on improving my dream recall for years now. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30089135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30089135/
    - jamal-kumar 2y ago
      Yeah, I used to be really into knowing a ton about this stuff because it was something I kept on having out of my control before - I used to have worsening sleep paralysis when I was young and into my 20s, and lucid dreaming would be sort of a side effect of it... I guess this is what that WILD (wake-induced lucid dreaming) thing tries to actually induce, like from what I was reading you sort of meditate your way into that state and flip your consicousness into a lucid dream. Honestly my sleep was crazy back then and I talked to a doctor who said it was grounds for going for a sleep study and getting tested to see if I had narcolepsy, but I just ended up moving way closer to the equator instead and something about the seasonality of the sun coming up and down at the same time all year round is what a doctor there said could have reset my circadian rhythm as it got more pronounced in dark winter time.

by speff 2y ago

hasbot 2y ago

Why did you stop? Did you gain any insights from your experience. I think many of us nerds are intrigued by the concept of lucid dreaming but haven't actually explored the space. I skimmed a book on the subject in the mid 80's, but only tried the techniques a couple of times. Oddly, I still remember a couple of my lucid dreams.

speff 2y ago
At the time, the two most popular ways for getting lucid in a dream was 1. Doing a reality check habitually in real life. Eventually you'll start doing it in dreams and have it fail. This _usually_ kicks you into lucid territory 2. Estimating when you're going to be in a REM state and setting a timer to wake yourself up. Then, after gaining consciousness fully, trying to make your body go to sleep while your mind is awake Can you spot why I stopped doing it after a period of time? It end up feeling like a lot of work every day just for a chance (a low one in my and most people's cases) of having a lucid dream. Sleeping was no longer a passive, let's-relax type of activity. I just wanted to reclaim that period of time in a way. I think my biggest takeaway from my lucid dreams was just the feeling of being in one. It's hard to describe, but the rush that comes along with the realization you can do anything you want is quite exhilarating.
- CPLX 2y ago
  What are examples of reality checks.
  - jimmaswell 2y ago
    A few are: Look at a digital time twice, in a dream the numbers will usually change. Try to read fine print. Perfect vision with no glasses if you wear them.
  - lsiclait 2y ago
    I would just ask myself “Am I dreaming?” When I’m awake, I immediately answer “no,” but when I’m asleep, I’m not sure. That’s enough to know that I’m not awake.
  - smokel 2y ago
    You could simply look this up on the internet, but for those of us who are exceptionally lazy, here goes: Every now and then, say every hour, or whenever you think of it, look around you. Try to check if what you see is real. Are things floating around and is gravity not working as expected? When you look over your shoulder and back, did the room change color, and did the table just turn into a tree? Try to touch something with your hand. Do you not feel any resistance when your hand drops through the couch? If so, you are probably dreaming.
  - jgilias 2y ago
    Two that I used was: 1. Trying to put your index finger through the other palm. In a dream this works, it just goes through; 2. Press your nose closed and continue breathing normally. In a dream this works. I stopped for a similar reason as the other poster. It really interfered with my ability to get the much needed rest while sleeping. It doesn’t come free (but is awesome when it works)
    - speff 2y ago
      Nice - these two were my go-tos as well. The nose-plug one felt especially weird once you realized what was happening.
      - jorgesborges 2y ago
        Mine as well -- nose-plug was most effective but also least discrete and most awkward to do in public. Checking a clock was my second go-to..
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  I can reliably meditate myself into a lucid dream if you're interested in learning the technique. You've probably encounteted it before. I also just regularly find myself in lucid dreams because I'm constantly looking for discrepancies and gain control the moment I find one. The basic technique is just to meditate to sleep by counting your breaths, while not moving at all. It is really hard to pull off until you get used to it, but with some dedication you can get decent success. If you do it right, your body enters sleep paralysis while your brain is still awake, and you get dropped into a dream.
  - speff 2y ago
    Counting your breaths seems like a better way to do it. When I tried wake-induced LD'ing, I didn't have any strategy in mind when it came to what I should be thinking of. When I was right at the boundary of dreaming, my thoughts would start racing and I would usually snap myself awake. Your advice would likely have saved me from a few failures.
    - soulofmischief 2y ago
      Yeah, I've had some success with WILDs, which I'd typically practice on a Saturday or Sunday morning, but ultimately it was a crapshoot compared to just meditating myself to sleep. I'd also recommend lying on your back when attempting to lucid dream, it always made it much more likely to occur for me, along with sleep paralysis. There is some unexplored physiological reason for this, but it's real and many sleep experts have found the same results. I would also recommend not getting caught up in losing track of the count, simply starting over from 0 the moment you realize that you lost your place. I have severe chronic insomnia, ADHD, tourettic OCD and a predisposition for body-focused repetitive behaviors so if I can meditate myself to sleep, I'm pretty sure anyone can with some practice. The reason why I can't do it every night and "beat" insomnia is two-fold: One, because it paradoxically aggravates sleep avoidance for me. It's an excruciating experience spending 30-60 minutes lying completely still while alarm bells are going off in my head, paired with intense urges commanding me to scratch an itch or adjust a limb, and it's anything but meditative until the very moment sleep paralysis kicks in and my body goes numb. Two, it usually puts me into sleep paralysis which is just rolling the dice for a metric ton of adrenaline to get released during a paralysis hallucination. I've had sleep paralysis encounters keep me up for the next few days, shit gives me the creeps.
macNchz 2y ago
I was casually into this stuff like twenty years ago–read the forums, tried various techniques etc. I did have a bit of real success with it, also having some lucid dreams that are memorable years later, however I didn't actually like the experience of consistently remembering lots of details from my dreams, which was, I think, most of why I stopped. At the time, at least, the recommended starting point was dream journaling–writing down everything you can remember as soon as you wake up. Practicing that even for a few days has the effect of helping you retain quite a bit more detail from your dreams. It wasn't so much that I had unpleasant dreams as it was that remembering them made the night seem somehow less restful, as though I needed the relatively blank gap of sleep in the filmstrip of my memory to be able to wake up with a clear head.

replete 2y ago

I found another method: after waking up in the morning (with time to doze off again), nicotine pouch under the gum just after the heavy breathing starts. Super vivid lucid dreams, with obvious gotchas of using nicotine

jamal-kumar 2y ago
That sounds like a stupid way to suffocate and die on something in your sleep but it does affect a neurochemical (acetylcholine) which are implicated in how dreams and the entire sleep/wake cycle work. There's safer alternatives in my mind, 'oneirogics' [1] as I remember them being called, which affect the same neurotransmitters with none of the horrible addiction or choking risk - can be as simple as some ancient shamanic technique one researcher in central america told me, which was a maracuya leaf placed in your pillow to remind you in your dream of the distinct smell from the waking world that you're dreaming so you may control it [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneirogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneirogen
- prophesi 2y ago
  AFAIK galantamine is the only drug with actual studies[0] for inducing lucidity. Participants would practice dream recall and reality checks each day, and fall asleep after reciting lucid dream affirmations. Then be awoken in the middle of the night to take galantamine, and fall back asleep while visualizing a continuation of the dream they were in last. Anecdotally, I become lucid whenever I take it without doing the rest of the study's rituals, but I've worked on improving my dream recall for years now. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30089135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30089135/
  - jamal-kumar 2y ago
    Yeah, I used to be really into knowing a ton about this stuff because it was something I kept on having out of my control before - I used to have worsening sleep paralysis when I was young and into my 20s, and lucid dreaming would be sort of a side effect of it... I guess this is what that WILD (wake-induced lucid dreaming) thing tries to actually induce, like from what I was reading you sort of meditate your way into that state and flip your consicousness into a lucid dream. Honestly my sleep was crazy back then and I talked to a doctor who said it was grounds for going for a sleep study and getting tested to see if I had narcolepsy, but I just ended up moving way closer to the equator instead and something about the seasonality of the sun coming up and down at the same time all year round is what a doctor there said could have reset my circadian rhythm as it got more pronounced in dark winter time.