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In 2001 we also had Siberian Airlines flight 1812 from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk was shot down by Ukrainian S-200 during a joint Russian/Ukrainian exercise! http

In 2001 we also had Siberian Airlines flight 1812 from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk was shot down by Ukrainian S-200 during a joint Russian/Ukrainian exercise! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

protomolecule 2y ago
>joint Russian/Ukrainian exercise Nope, that was Ukrainian exercise
- ponector 2y ago
  Any proofs? Everywhere articles says that accident was during joint exercise.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    They were 'joint' because the Ukraine used a test range in Crimea that belongs to Russian Black Sea fleet based in Sevastopol. All launches were authorized by Ukrainians, Russians fired a single short-range missile and that's it. But, yeah, let's call it joint Russian-Ukrainian to shift the blame towards Russians. You can read the details here using google translate if you like: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Катастрофа_Ту-154_над_Чёрным_морем#Военные_учения_4_октября_2001_года https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Катастрофа_Ту-154_над_Чёрным_м...
    - ponector 2y ago
      Russian generals, Russian troops taking participation in exercise. Russians firing a rocket. Exercise located at Russian shooting range. And yet you wrote it was not a joint exercise. Russia Today can be proud of you, comrade!
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        Was the Iraq war a joint war of the US and Ukraine against Iraq? [0] If you say it was, then okay, the exercise was joint too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_I...
    - oldgradstudent 2y ago
      > But, yeah, let's call it joint Russian-Ukrainian to shift the blame towards Russians. No, I mentioned it because a joint Russian-Ukrainian exercise is unthinkable now.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        My apologies then.
- lkbm 2y ago
  Using Google Translate on the Wikipedia citation[0]: > On the Ukrainian website “Maidan-inform” expressed doubts about whose arsenal – Russian or Ukrainian – the S-200 missile was fired. Russian equipment, radar stations and warships also participated in the training. Ukraine shot it down, but it sure sounds like a joint exercise. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20160508084452/http://2001.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2001/75n/n75n-s00.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20160508084452/http://2001.novay...
oneshtein 2y ago
But this plane was not hit by S200 - no S200 parts or hexagen was found by Russians at crash site.
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  > found by Russians Well there you go, airtight proof.
  - oneshtein 2y ago
    Russians blame Ukraine, but provided no proof for that in court, as usual. If you have any physical evidence that Tu-154 was shot by S200 missile, then bring it on. If no, then stop spreading Russian fakes. How it is different from MH-17 (Russia blame Ukraine, found guilty in court) or this J2-8432 (Russian blame Ukraine, ...)?
    - NotYourLawyer 2y ago
      Oh I was being sarcastic lol. Obviously the Russians would lie about this.

protomolecule 2y ago

>joint Russian/Ukrainian exercise Nope, that was Ukrainian exercise

ponector 2y ago
Any proofs? Everywhere articles says that accident was during joint exercise.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  They were 'joint' because the Ukraine used a test range in Crimea that belongs to Russian Black Sea fleet based in Sevastopol. All launches were authorized by Ukrainians, Russians fired a single short-range missile and that's it. But, yeah, let's call it joint Russian-Ukrainian to shift the blame towards Russians. You can read the details here using google translate if you like: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Катастрофа_Ту-154_над_Чёрным_морем#Военные_учения_4_октября_2001_года https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Катастрофа_Ту-154_над_Чёрным_м...
  - ponector 2y ago
    Russian generals, Russian troops taking participation in exercise. Russians firing a rocket. Exercise located at Russian shooting range. And yet you wrote it was not a joint exercise. Russia Today can be proud of you, comrade!
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      Was the Iraq war a joint war of the US and Ukraine against Iraq? [0] If you say it was, then okay, the exercise was joint too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_I...
  - oldgradstudent 2y ago
    > But, yeah, let's call it joint Russian-Ukrainian to shift the blame towards Russians. No, I mentioned it because a joint Russian-Ukrainian exercise is unthinkable now.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      My apologies then.
lkbm 2y ago
Using Google Translate on the Wikipedia citation[0]: > On the Ukrainian website “Maidan-inform” expressed doubts about whose arsenal – Russian or Ukrainian – the S-200 missile was fired. Russian equipment, radar stations and warships also participated in the training. Ukraine shot it down, but it sure sounds like a joint exercise. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20160508084452/http://2001.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2001/75n/n75n-s00.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20160508084452/http://2001.novay...

oneshtein 2y ago

But this plane was not hit by S200 - no S200 parts or hexagen was found by Russians at crash site.

NotYourLawyer 2y ago
> found by Russians Well there you go, airtight proof.
- oneshtein 2y ago
  Russians blame Ukraine, but provided no proof for that in court, as usual. If you have any physical evidence that Tu-154 was shot by S200 missile, then bring it on. If no, then stop spreading Russian fakes. How it is different from MH-17 (Russia blame Ukraine, found guilty in court) or this J2-8432 (Russian blame Ukraine, ...)?
  - NotYourLawyer 2y ago
    Oh I was being sarcastic lol. Obviously the Russians would lie about this.