6 ms·

Homebrew Batteries

141 points by xanderlewis 2y ago

datadrivenangel 2y ago
Good example of quality scientific writing with the fun topic of making batteries from household materials.
hyhconito 2y ago
Worth noting this is the old web site of Hans Summers of QRP Labs fame... https://qrp-labs.com https://qrp-labs.com
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
geocrasher 2y ago
Hans is a friend of mine, and this is hosted on my VPS. It might be of interest to some that in order to handle the HN Hug Of Death on my little server, I've manually cached this page as HTML on the server and it's served via a rewrite rather than being served by the rather old CMS running an equally old PHP.
- Evidlo 2y ago
  Doesn't a caching reverse proxy do this sort of thing automatically?
  - geocrasher 2y ago
    It would, if I had one.
    - titanomachy 2y ago
      YAGNI (you ain’t gonna need it)
- trod1234 2y ago
  Hi Geo, Interesting. Has he done anything more recently with regards to homemade batteries, or was it just a passing interest? Since this article no longer has comment submissions on the page itself, is it possible to add a little something about the chemistry for bleach and safe handling?. While the experiments are interesting, I can't help but notice significant deficits in safety that might cause anyone duplicating this (at different scale) to have regretful issues, proper chemical handling isn't really mentioned. I'm no chemist, but I do have a working knowledge with some of these chemicals related to water chemistry (pools). Bleach (NaClO) naturally corrodes (oxidizes) metal because of its strong electronegativity from Chlorine. Any metal vessel is going to rupture as a matter of time, potentially creating conditions where hazmat cleanup may be needed, where reactants need to be safely neutralized before byproduct cleanup can occur; this is not intuitive since dilution may not be sufficient; its highly dependent on the chemistry of the formed byproducts. For example, Sodium by itself (metallic) reacts violently in air which is why its often stored in oil. Many of the potential byproducts of the experiment are hazardous, or carcinogenic, and there is a possibility that some may recombine at the electrodes. No mention of needed PPE is made. The voltage differential across two electrodes unless externally driven (electrochemistry) is almost always driven by redox reactions (reduction / oxidation). The solution may recombine into chlorine gas on the reduction side. There are other reactions that may also occur. While I don't see too many unaddress-able issues at the small scale, if someone scaled this up as-is to get an appropriate level of voltage/current, I'd be worried for their safety.
mdaniel 2y ago
This may interest this audience, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41235789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41235789 An open-source flow battery kit - Aug 2024 - 108 comments
oulipo 2y ago
If you're interested in DIY repairable batteries for e-bikes, check what we're building with engineers and designers from France at https://get.gouach.com https://get.gouach.com :)
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  As much as I like your product, your message feels a bit too close to marketing spam in my book and I'd rather not have the HN comment section becoming full of such posts. Keep up the good work though!
  - oulipo 2y ago
    We're trying to get the word out around people interested in batteries, that's why I kept it as light as possible, just so that people can learn about it and see if they're interested! :)
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      IMHO posts like this one are too much, but when you do it like that[0] instead then it's OK to me. For the record I vouched for your post above anyway, but if you keep doing that you'll likely get shadow-banned for spam so I think you really shouldn't be too heavy handed on self-promotion. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42504991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42504991
      - xanderlewis 2y ago
        I agree. I think it’s the ‘if you’re interested in …, check out …’ pattern that sets off many spam detectors — including the one built into my brain. Without that, it’s already more palatable.
- Saris 2y ago
  This looks really neat, I'm curious if you know if it's possible to get a UN and UL certified battery for some of the upcoming regulations requiring that in certain states, given that someone can open it up and swap out the cells?
JKCalhoun 2y ago
Ahhh.... the old Web that I remember.
- mathgeek 2y ago
  Too true, although for those of us a bit older, the 2009 web that this comes from is already so improved with its many differences from the "old old" web that we remember (yet still so much better than the web today).
Animats 2y ago
The classic on this: "A Boy and a Battery", by Yates. (1959 ed).[1] There's a whole series, "A Boy and a Motor", etc., all the way up to how to build your own model railroad from scrap, if you have the skills of a master machinist. Plus "Atomic Experiments for Boys". Really. The Internet Archive has many of these.[2] "Shop Practice for Home Mechanics" is still useful, teaching how to do basic metalwork with simple hand tools. They cover lathe work, all the way up to how to make a crankshaft. All this dates from an era before the availability of unlimited entertainment for timepass. [1] https://archive.org/details/boyandbattery00yate/ https://archive.org/details/boyandbattery00yate/ [2] https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Yates%2C+Raymond+F.+%28Raymond+Francis%29%2C+1895-%22 https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Yates%2C+Raymo...
NotYourLawyer 2y ago
Love it. Web pages like this are what the old Internet used to be. A dying breed now though.

Homebrew Batteries

141 points by xanderlewis 2y ago

datadrivenangel 2y ago

Good example of quality scientific writing with the fun topic of making batteries from household materials.

hyhconito 2y ago

Worth noting this is the old web site of Hans Summers of QRP Labs fame... https://qrp-labs.com https://qrp-labs.com

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

geocrasher 2y ago

Hans is a friend of mine, and this is hosted on my VPS. It might be of interest to some that in order to handle the HN Hug Of Death on my little server, I've manually cached this page as HTML on the server and it's served via a rewrite rather than being served by the rather old CMS running an equally old PHP.

Evidlo 2y ago
Doesn't a caching reverse proxy do this sort of thing automatically?
- geocrasher 2y ago
  It would, if I had one.
  - titanomachy 2y ago
    YAGNI (you ain’t gonna need it)
trod1234 2y ago
Hi Geo, Interesting. Has he done anything more recently with regards to homemade batteries, or was it just a passing interest? Since this article no longer has comment submissions on the page itself, is it possible to add a little something about the chemistry for bleach and safe handling?. While the experiments are interesting, I can't help but notice significant deficits in safety that might cause anyone duplicating this (at different scale) to have regretful issues, proper chemical handling isn't really mentioned. I'm no chemist, but I do have a working knowledge with some of these chemicals related to water chemistry (pools). Bleach (NaClO) naturally corrodes (oxidizes) metal because of its strong electronegativity from Chlorine. Any metal vessel is going to rupture as a matter of time, potentially creating conditions where hazmat cleanup may be needed, where reactants need to be safely neutralized before byproduct cleanup can occur; this is not intuitive since dilution may not be sufficient; its highly dependent on the chemistry of the formed byproducts. For example, Sodium by itself (metallic) reacts violently in air which is why its often stored in oil. Many of the potential byproducts of the experiment are hazardous, or carcinogenic, and there is a possibility that some may recombine at the electrodes. No mention of needed PPE is made. The voltage differential across two electrodes unless externally driven (electrochemistry) is almost always driven by redox reactions (reduction / oxidation). The solution may recombine into chlorine gas on the reduction side. There are other reactions that may also occur. While I don't see too many unaddress-able issues at the small scale, if someone scaled this up as-is to get an appropriate level of voltage/current, I'd be worried for their safety.

mdaniel 2y ago

This may interest this audience, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41235789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41235789 An open-source flow battery kit - Aug 2024 - 108 comments

oulipo 2y ago

If you're interested in DIY repairable batteries for e-bikes, check what we're building with engineers and designers from France at https://get.gouach.com https://get.gouach.com :)

littlestymaar 2y ago
As much as I like your product, your message feels a bit too close to marketing spam in my book and I'd rather not have the HN comment section becoming full of such posts. Keep up the good work though!
- oulipo 2y ago
  We're trying to get the word out around people interested in batteries, that's why I kept it as light as possible, just so that people can learn about it and see if they're interested! :)
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    IMHO posts like this one are too much, but when you do it like that[0] instead then it's OK to me. For the record I vouched for your post above anyway, but if you keep doing that you'll likely get shadow-banned for spam so I think you really shouldn't be too heavy handed on self-promotion. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42504991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42504991
    - xanderlewis 2y ago
      I agree. I think it’s the ‘if you’re interested in …, check out …’ pattern that sets off many spam detectors — including the one built into my brain. Without that, it’s already more palatable.
Saris 2y ago
This looks really neat, I'm curious if you know if it's possible to get a UN and UL certified battery for some of the upcoming regulations requiring that in certain states, given that someone can open it up and swap out the cells?

JKCalhoun 2y ago

Ahhh.... the old Web that I remember.

mathgeek 2y ago
Too true, although for those of us a bit older, the 2009 web that this comes from is already so improved with its many differences from the "old old" web that we remember (yet still so much better than the web today).

Animats 2y ago

The classic on this: "A Boy and a Battery", by Yates. (1959 ed).[1] There's a whole series, "A Boy and a Motor", etc., all the way up to how to build your own model railroad from scrap, if you have the skills of a master machinist. Plus "Atomic Experiments for Boys". Really. The Internet Archive has many of these.[2] "Shop Practice for Home Mechanics" is still useful, teaching how to do basic metalwork with simple hand tools. They cover lathe work, all the way up to how to make a crankshaft. All this dates from an era before the availability of unlimited entertainment for timepass. [1] https://archive.org/details/boyandbattery00yate/ https://archive.org/details/boyandbattery00yate/ [2] https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Yates%2C+Raymond+F.+%28Raymond+Francis%29%2C+1895-%22 https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Yates%2C+Raymo...

NotYourLawyer 2y ago

Love it. Web pages like this are what the old Internet used to be. A dying breed now though.