8 ms·

Here’s to the Misfits

147 points by sachitgupta 14y ago

blhack 14y ago
Hearing this now makes me cringe. Apple is so, so, so far at the opposite end of the spectrum than what the commercial championed.
- tokenizer 14y ago
  But that's their image. That's why they can get away with charging what they do. Their design is still considered, "rogue/maverick"...
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Oddly enough -- that was also Microsoft's self-image for many, many years. The were the maverick to IBM's stodgy conformist. Not that I saw them that way.
    - beagle3 14y ago
      I don't think anyone outside Microsoft saw it that way later than 1990 or so. From talking to microsofties, though, they had the underdog/maverick image internally at least until 2005. All the techies I knew left MS long ago, and all the business people I know at MS joined in the last 3-5 years and never bought into the "underdog" image.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    I don't know about "rogue/maverick," but I'll take "good" in a world of companies still rehashing 20 year-old laptop designs.
- deveac 14y ago
  How? Because they have a large market share in certain product categories? I see that kind of out of the box thinking and pure passion in many of their most recent designs. The iPhone is a perfect example. Look at where that paradigm shifting product has taken them, and think about how that device is only 5 years old. I see the same transformative execution and design in their iPad, and now the rest of the OEMs are desperately trying to catch up instead of having delivered. Intel had to invent a new product category just to first describe, and then compete with the Macbook Air. When I try to imagine what that quote means for Apple, I always thought it meant designing the absolute best products for people, no matter what, -no compromises. That they have delivered beyond what anybody could have possibly expected is a realization of that quote, not a negation to me. But maybe you take it to mean something else? They've certainly changed the world...
  - mrich 14y ago
    Because they are trying to use a broken patent system to corner the market, instead of trying to compete. They are the most aggressive in IT doing this, so in a way they are misfits.
    - msbarnett 14y ago
      > They are the most aggressive in IT doing this [Citation Needed]
      - mrich 14y ago
        http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/132050-patents-werent-designed http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/132050-patents-werent... "Apple, which has been one of the most aggressive players in patent litigation..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation "Apple is known for and promotes itself as an active and aggressive pursuer of enforcement of its intellectual property interests."
        deveac 14y ago
        I guess I'm having a hard time seeing where either of the links you provided demonstrated that Apple is "abusing" the patent system lieu of competing like you claimed, unless you define competing as letting your competitors help themselves to your IP while you look the other way. Yes the patent system is broken, but a company choosing not to enforce or license their IP isn't the definition of abuse. Violating your own FRAND terms and suing someone for Frand is clearly abuse of it though. Nor are Motorala, Nokia, Google and others "abusing" the patent system when they protect their IP that they choose not to license. They are using the system for the exact purpose for which it is designed. If we don't like that, it's on us to change the system appropriately.
        msbarnett 14y ago
        A citation is not backing up your fact-free assertion by pointing at other people's equally fact-free assertions. A citation is where you point at some, y'know, facts that back up your assertion. Like, and I'm just brainstorming here, number of litigation events per patent held, or offensive suits vs defensive countersuits, or really, anything other than "well extremetech said so and that's good enough for government work!". As it is your assertion doesn't seem to pass the smell test. Surely if we count shell companies, Intellectual Ventures is far and away the biggest litigant in the IT space. And if we're ruling them out, you'd be hard-pressed to beat the major baseband companies.
- deleted 14y ago
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deleted 14y ago
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victork2 14y ago
Hey another one of the "I was too different/intelligent for normal school", backed up by a TED Talk. Here on HN we have one of these articles every week. I think that all of the "misfits" should acknowledge one thing: school is not for YOU it's for everybody to have "similar" chances in life. Yes, yes you're all beautiful trouble makers with a mission to change the world. Now do things please. Gosh I feel snarky today :)!
- unimpressive 14y ago
  > Gosh I feel snarky today :)! No, your post is pretty on point. I think everyone here feels this way to an extent. Don't be sated by your dreams; reality feels better.
- Androsynth 14y ago
  why do misfits have to do things or change the world? Just be a misfit for the sake of being a misfit. Just be yourself. You're trying to fit misfits into the same type of homogenous box that school systems put kids in.
  - daenz 14y ago
    > Just be a misfit for the sake of being a misfit Please don't do that. The world has enough people trying to be unique and quirky for the sake of it. > Just be yourself. Yes, do this.
    - Androsynth 14y ago
      When I say misfit, I mean genuinely different. Being unique and quirky because that is currently what is the 'in' thing isn't unique, different or being a misfit at all.
  - johnchristopher 14y ago
    > Just be yourself Good luck with that. http://threekeywords.com/quotes/category/author/tocqueville/ http://threekeywords.com/quotes/category/author/tocqueville/
jmduke 14y ago
I know its hip to declare oneself a misfit and throw away the shackles of traditional academia, but what's the point of this post? Being your 'weird self' means, by definition, that you have to be a misfit? Doesn't this imply than anyone who enjoyed or benefited from high school/college isn't being genuine? Am I missing something, or is this a puff piece for being offbeat?
- zenogais 14y ago
  It's what is more commonly called a "circlejerk" - where everyone gets to feel good/superior for a while but nothing is actually accomplished.
- debacle 14y ago
  > but what's the point of this post? Self-applauding circlejerk, followed by tea service.
- crusso 14y ago
  The point depends on how you want to take it. You could think of it as the author's attempt to rationalize away his own society-perceived negative aspects (some real, some imagined) of being a misfit. You could also think of it as a motivational post for others who feel like they don't fit in who might find a little inspiration in his words and in the story he related. Sometimes a few good words can be the difference between someone committing suicide vs turning things around and facing life head on.
MaxGabriel 14y ago
Maccman, not a huge deal, but when you said "A different doctor might have put her on medication and told her to calm down." you're quoting Robinson.
jtbigwoo 14y ago
When I look back at the younger people I've helped hire, the biggest success factor was not necessarily whether he/she had been dedicated to school, per se. It was more important that they had dedicated themselves to something. A good grade from a good school is a nice indicator of that dedication, but it isn't the only indicator. It doesn't matter if a person is a misfit in one or two areas, but someone that dropped out of everything they tried generally didn't perform well for us, either. Looking back, I suppose it meant that those people were still casting about for their true calling.
Confusion 14y ago
Because they change the world. Which retroactively gets them assigned 'misfit' status, as a sort of honorary name. Franklin, Churchill, Einstein, Noether and Darwin, to name just a few, all weren't misfits. They were simply eminently capable people that believed in themselves. You don't need to be a misfit to achieve greatness and we don't need to call everyone that achieves greatness a misfit.
- eevilspock 14y ago
  Whether or not Einstein was a misfit, the physics establishment considered his ideas crazy (see Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions). By definition, a misfit is one that doesn't fit into the mainstream. The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -George Bernard Shaw
  - Confusion 14y ago
    By definition, a misfit is one that doesn't fit into the mainstream. I don't think one becomes a misfit by having and defending unique insights. I have a friend that has a Ph.D. in philosophy. He tends to say things that take some time to process and may initially cause a "what?" feeling. As any Ph.D., he did his small part in changing our understanding of the world. I wouldn't call him a misfit, just extraordinary. Concerning that quote by Shaw: I believe taking that literally is mistaking a funny quip to make you think for a deeply profound eternal truth. Shaw does not seriously intend to say that e.g. Churchill was not a reasonable man. I actually own a copy of Kuhn's book. I found it very enlightening. He's not a misfit either.
    - eevilspock 14y ago
      Shaw does not seriously intend to say that e.g. Churchill was not a reasonable man. Who says that Churchill represents progress? The mainstream?
code_chimp 14y ago
Dang, not a tribute to Danzig and Company.
- pinchyfingers 14y ago
  My thoughts exactly, this was the most exciting link on the front page for about 3 seconds, then it was the most disappointing. The capitalization of 'Misfits' in the title looks like a proper noun. Anyway, to make up for this, I will tribute the Misfits: Hey, HN! I raped your mother today! And it doesn't matter much to me, as long as she spread!
swagv 14y ago
It's unfortunate that whenever someone mentions the word "TED, I immediately tune out and discredit.
- specialist 14y ago
  It's just TV. I let other people figure out what's worth watching. (Very little.) Collaborative filtering is great.
roopeshv 14y ago
if we were to follow the trend in software engineering/computer programming/technology companies, we want more doctors who drop out from medical school to be surgeons.
- kika 14y ago
  Wrong analogy. It assumes that the human body have the same degree of complexity as, say, coffeescript. In no way. To properly (without killing the patient) and reliably open and then stitch the human body requires years of study and practice. While coding JS in vim requires, like 3 months, of which 10 weeks is studying vim :-) I'm not speaking about why you're going to open the body (diagnosis) or what do you code, that's a different story. Just the plain barrier to entry.
  - prodigal_erik 14y ago
    Knuth's code has bugs. NASA's code had bugs. Programming as we conceive it is so close to impossible that it takes years of study and diligence to aspire to only being pretty bad at it. We're just reaching the quicksilver and bloodletting phase of our discipline's evolution, and someday our successors will look back and cringe just as doctors do.
bengillies 14y ago
Here's to the Misfits? Here's to the people who fit in. Here's to the people who try really hard but never quite get there. Here's to the people who don't fit in but always wanted to. Here's to the people who do the dirty jobs cos they they pay the bills and no-one else wants to. Here's to the underdog. Here's to the loser. Here's to the person who actually finishes their degree. Here's to the 50 year old who's still innovating. Here's to the 25 year old who isn't. Different people are different. Let's celebrate all of them not just the chosen few from the subgroup we've marked out as "special" this year.
- minikites 14y ago
  I'm not cut out to be a misfit. And that's okay.
kitb 14y ago
I cannot for the life of me find a source which puts John Cleese and John le Carré in the same school.
Void_ 14y ago
Instant karma article.
ak39 14y ago
Love that video, but I fault it because it doesn't include our own living legend Nelson Rohlihlahla Mandela. :( A true misfit who refused to accept the status quo. And, in case you don't know, Rohlihlala in fact means "he who shakes the tree"! A name given to him at birth. Talk about destiny!
JonnieCache 14y ago
ATTN all those self-identifying as misfits at early stages of their career: The reason you are not fitting properly may just be because you are being an asshole. Please be constantly aware of this fact as you go around imposing your special snowflakeness on everyone else.
- cjeane 14y ago
  For some of us 'not fitting properly' is an internal struggal and has nothing to do with our interactions with others. You can be a misfit and be well liked by your peers. I suggest you take your own advice.
  - JonnieCache 14y ago
    All I asked was awareness :) They key word in that sentence was "may." Although for those of us struggling internally in social situations, more self-doubt is probably not what is needed.
corin_ 14y ago
> What the school didn’t tell admiring visitors though, is that the vast majority of those famous alumni had been expelled. Would love to see a citation for that. From what I can see of the two examples given, one (Cleese) wasn't expelled and one (Le Carré) didn't go to the school that I presume he's talking about (Clifton College)?

147 points by sachitgupta 14y ago

Hearing this now makes me cringe. Apple is so, so, so far at the opposite end of the spectrum than what the commercial championed.

tokenizer 14y ago
But that's their image. That's why they can get away with charging what they do. Their design is still considered, "rogue/maverick"...
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Oddly enough -- that was also Microsoft's self-image for many, many years. The were the maverick to IBM's stodgy conformist. Not that I saw them that way.
  - beagle3 14y ago
    I don't think anyone outside Microsoft saw it that way later than 1990 or so. From talking to microsofties, though, they had the underdog/maverick image internally at least until 2005. All the techies I knew left MS long ago, and all the business people I know at MS joined in the last 3-5 years and never bought into the "underdog" image.
- rhizome 14y ago
  I don't know about "rogue/maverick," but I'll take "good" in a world of companies still rehashing 20 year-old laptop designs.
deveac 14y ago
How? Because they have a large market share in certain product categories? I see that kind of out of the box thinking and pure passion in many of their most recent designs. The iPhone is a perfect example. Look at where that paradigm shifting product has taken them, and think about how that device is only 5 years old. I see the same transformative execution and design in their iPad, and now the rest of the OEMs are desperately trying to catch up instead of having delivered. Intel had to invent a new product category just to first describe, and then compete with the Macbook Air. When I try to imagine what that quote means for Apple, I always thought it meant designing the absolute best products for people, no matter what, -no compromises. That they have delivered beyond what anybody could have possibly expected is a realization of that quote, not a negation to me. But maybe you take it to mean something else? They've certainly changed the world...
- mrich 14y ago
  Because they are trying to use a broken patent system to corner the market, instead of trying to compete. They are the most aggressive in IT doing this, so in a way they are misfits.
  - msbarnett 14y ago
    > They are the most aggressive in IT doing this [Citation Needed]
    - mrich 14y ago
      http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/132050-patents-werent-designed http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/132050-patents-werent... "Apple, which has been one of the most aggressive players in patent litigation..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation "Apple is known for and promotes itself as an active and aggressive pursuer of enforcement of its intellectual property interests."
      - deveac 14y ago
        I guess I'm having a hard time seeing where either of the links you provided demonstrated that Apple is "abusing" the patent system lieu of competing like you claimed, unless you define competing as letting your competitors help themselves to your IP while you look the other way. Yes the patent system is broken, but a company choosing not to enforce or license their IP isn't the definition of abuse. Violating your own FRAND terms and suing someone for Frand is clearly abuse of it though. Nor are Motorala, Nokia, Google and others "abusing" the patent system when they protect their IP that they choose not to license. They are using the system for the exact purpose for which it is designed. If we don't like that, it's on us to change the system appropriately.
      - msbarnett 14y ago
        A citation is not backing up your fact-free assertion by pointing at other people's equally fact-free assertions. A citation is where you point at some, y'know, facts that back up your assertion. Like, and I'm just brainstorming here, number of litigation events per patent held, or offensive suits vs defensive countersuits, or really, anything other than "well extremetech said so and that's good enough for government work!". As it is your assertion doesn't seem to pass the smell test. Surely if we count shell companies, Intellectual Ventures is far and away the biggest litigant in the IT space. And if we're ruling them out, you'd be hard-pressed to beat the major baseband companies.
deleted 14y ago
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deleted 14y ago

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victork2 14y ago

Hey another one of the "I was too different/intelligent for normal school", backed up by a TED Talk. Here on HN we have one of these articles every week. I think that all of the "misfits" should acknowledge one thing: school is not for YOU it's for everybody to have "similar" chances in life. Yes, yes you're all beautiful trouble makers with a mission to change the world. Now do things please. Gosh I feel snarky today :)!

unimpressive 14y ago
> Gosh I feel snarky today :)! No, your post is pretty on point. I think everyone here feels this way to an extent. Don't be sated by your dreams; reality feels better.
Androsynth 14y ago
why do misfits have to do things or change the world? Just be a misfit for the sake of being a misfit. Just be yourself. You're trying to fit misfits into the same type of homogenous box that school systems put kids in.
- daenz 14y ago
  > Just be a misfit for the sake of being a misfit Please don't do that. The world has enough people trying to be unique and quirky for the sake of it. > Just be yourself. Yes, do this.
  - Androsynth 14y ago
    When I say misfit, I mean genuinely different. Being unique and quirky because that is currently what is the 'in' thing isn't unique, different or being a misfit at all.
- johnchristopher 14y ago
  > Just be yourself Good luck with that. http://threekeywords.com/quotes/category/author/tocqueville/ http://threekeywords.com/quotes/category/author/tocqueville/

jmduke 14y ago

I know its hip to declare oneself a misfit and throw away the shackles of traditional academia, but what's the point of this post? Being your 'weird self' means, by definition, that you have to be a misfit? Doesn't this imply than anyone who enjoyed or benefited from high school/college isn't being genuine? Am I missing something, or is this a puff piece for being offbeat?

zenogais 14y ago
It's what is more commonly called a "circlejerk" - where everyone gets to feel good/superior for a while but nothing is actually accomplished.
debacle 14y ago
> but what's the point of this post? Self-applauding circlejerk, followed by tea service.
crusso 14y ago
The point depends on how you want to take it. You could think of it as the author's attempt to rationalize away his own society-perceived negative aspects (some real, some imagined) of being a misfit. You could also think of it as a motivational post for others who feel like they don't fit in who might find a little inspiration in his words and in the story he related. Sometimes a few good words can be the difference between someone committing suicide vs turning things around and facing life head on.

MaxGabriel 14y ago

Maccman, not a huge deal, but when you said "A different doctor might have put her on medication and told her to calm down." you're quoting Robinson.

jtbigwoo 14y ago

When I look back at the younger people I've helped hire, the biggest success factor was not necessarily whether he/she had been dedicated to school, per se. It was more important that they had dedicated themselves to something. A good grade from a good school is a nice indicator of that dedication, but it isn't the only indicator. It doesn't matter if a person is a misfit in one or two areas, but someone that dropped out of everything they tried generally didn't perform well for us, either. Looking back, I suppose it meant that those people were still casting about for their true calling.

Confusion 14y ago

Because they change the world. Which retroactively gets them assigned 'misfit' status, as a sort of honorary name. Franklin, Churchill, Einstein, Noether and Darwin, to name just a few, all weren't misfits. They were simply eminently capable people that believed in themselves. You don't need to be a misfit to achieve greatness and we don't need to call everyone that achieves greatness a misfit.

eevilspock 14y ago
Whether or not Einstein was a misfit, the physics establishment considered his ideas crazy (see Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions). By definition, a misfit is one that doesn't fit into the mainstream. The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -George Bernard Shaw
- Confusion 14y ago
  By definition, a misfit is one that doesn't fit into the mainstream. I don't think one becomes a misfit by having and defending unique insights. I have a friend that has a Ph.D. in philosophy. He tends to say things that take some time to process and may initially cause a "what?" feeling. As any Ph.D., he did his small part in changing our understanding of the world. I wouldn't call him a misfit, just extraordinary. Concerning that quote by Shaw: I believe taking that literally is mistaking a funny quip to make you think for a deeply profound eternal truth. Shaw does not seriously intend to say that e.g. Churchill was not a reasonable man. I actually own a copy of Kuhn's book. I found it very enlightening. He's not a misfit either.
  - eevilspock 14y ago
    Shaw does not seriously intend to say that e.g. Churchill was not a reasonable man. Who says that Churchill represents progress? The mainstream?

code_chimp 14y ago

Dang, not a tribute to Danzig and Company.

pinchyfingers 14y ago
My thoughts exactly, this was the most exciting link on the front page for about 3 seconds, then it was the most disappointing. The capitalization of 'Misfits' in the title looks like a proper noun. Anyway, to make up for this, I will tribute the Misfits: Hey, HN! I raped your mother today! And it doesn't matter much to me, as long as she spread!

swagv 14y ago

It's unfortunate that whenever someone mentions the word "TED, I immediately tune out and discredit.

specialist 14y ago
It's just TV. I let other people figure out what's worth watching. (Very little.) Collaborative filtering is great.

roopeshv 14y ago

if we were to follow the trend in software engineering/computer programming/technology companies, we want more doctors who drop out from medical school to be surgeons.

kika 14y ago
Wrong analogy. It assumes that the human body have the same degree of complexity as, say, coffeescript. In no way. To properly (without killing the patient) and reliably open and then stitch the human body requires years of study and practice. While coding JS in vim requires, like 3 months, of which 10 weeks is studying vim :-) I'm not speaking about why you're going to open the body (diagnosis) or what do you code, that's a different story. Just the plain barrier to entry.
- prodigal_erik 14y ago
  Knuth's code has bugs. NASA's code had bugs. Programming as we conceive it is so close to impossible that it takes years of study and diligence to aspire to only being pretty bad at it. We're just reaching the quicksilver and bloodletting phase of our discipline's evolution, and someday our successors will look back and cringe just as doctors do.

bengillies 14y ago

Here's to the Misfits? Here's to the people who fit in. Here's to the people who try really hard but never quite get there. Here's to the people who don't fit in but always wanted to. Here's to the people who do the dirty jobs cos they they pay the bills and no-one else wants to. Here's to the underdog. Here's to the loser. Here's to the person who actually finishes their degree. Here's to the 50 year old who's still innovating. Here's to the 25 year old who isn't. Different people are different. Let's celebrate all of them not just the chosen few from the subgroup we've marked out as "special" this year.

minikites 14y ago
I'm not cut out to be a misfit. And that's okay.

kitb 14y ago

I cannot for the life of me find a source which puts John Cleese and John le Carré in the same school.

Void_ 14y ago

Instant karma article.

ak39 14y ago

Love that video, but I fault it because it doesn't include our own living legend Nelson Rohlihlahla Mandela. :( A true misfit who refused to accept the status quo. And, in case you don't know, Rohlihlala in fact means "he who shakes the tree"! A name given to him at birth. Talk about destiny!

JonnieCache 14y ago

ATTN all those self-identifying as misfits at early stages of their career: The reason you are not fitting properly may just be because you are being an asshole. Please be constantly aware of this fact as you go around imposing your special snowflakeness on everyone else.

cjeane 14y ago
For some of us 'not fitting properly' is an internal struggal and has nothing to do with our interactions with others. You can be a misfit and be well liked by your peers. I suggest you take your own advice.
- JonnieCache 14y ago
  All I asked was awareness :) They key word in that sentence was "may." Although for those of us struggling internally in social situations, more self-doubt is probably not what is needed.

corin_ 14y ago

> What the school didn’t tell admiring visitors though, is that the vast majority of those famous alumni had been expelled. Would love to see a citation for that. From what I can see of the two examples given, one (Cleese) wasn't expelled and one (Le Carré) didn't go to the school that I presume he's talking about (Clifton College)?