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> C. elegans connectome was tweaked and optimized by evolution to be as compact as possible. It's not like it's compressed or optimized or anything, it's just

> C. elegans connectome was tweaked and optimized by evolution to be as compact as possible. It's not like it's compressed or optimized or anything, it's just incredibly simple.

cyberax 2y ago
It's not that simple. A third of the body of C.elegans consists of neural tissue, it's incredibly energy-expensive. So it was optimized a lot, and there are some hidden interactions between neurons that are not directly connected.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  > there are some hidden interactions between neurons that are not directly connected. How is that possible? What is the link, the method of communication? If that isn't known how is it known the interaction is taking place? Do you still have the link to the blog post?
  - RaftPeople 2y ago
    > How is that possible? The neuron state is impacted by: neurotransmitters, electromagnetic fields, the chemical soup that it sits in, etc. An interesting example of how non-simple this stuff is: a new study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-024-06778-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-024-06778-2) where both the intracellular calcium level and the membrane potential were measured at the same time. The result: The membrane potential encoded the presence of an odor The intracellular calcium level encoded the magnitude of the odor
  - webnrrd2k 2y ago
    Hormones, I think... I'm not sure exactly what the g.p. post is referring to, but in people there are a lot of non-direct interactions, too. The one's I'm (only slightly) familiar with are hormones. Maybe there are others?
  - eli_gottlieb 2y ago
    "Hidden interactions" in c. elegans typically refers to chemical signaling rather than electrical. Of course, chemical signaling is tolerated in all nervous systems whenever its slow speed doesn't bring down the cruel hammer of natural selection. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt17kk982 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt17kk982
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > How is that possible? Chemical signals, including spillovers of neurotransmitters. I'm trying to find the post, but it was 20 years ago.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      No worries, thanks for looking! I'm still new to learning about a lot of this stuff, and didn't realize neurons in the body could use chemical signals to communicate with the brain. I still don't see how that indicates their brain is more advanced than we might think, though. What are the reasons to assume that?

> C. elegans connectome was tweaked and optimized by evolution to be as compact as possible. It's not like it's compressed or optimized or anything, it's just incredibly simple.

cyberax 2y ago

It's not that simple. A third of the body of C.elegans consists of neural tissue, it's incredibly energy-expensive. So it was optimized a lot, and there are some hidden interactions between neurons that are not directly connected.

ruthmarx 2y ago
> there are some hidden interactions between neurons that are not directly connected. How is that possible? What is the link, the method of communication? If that isn't known how is it known the interaction is taking place? Do you still have the link to the blog post?
- RaftPeople 2y ago
  > How is that possible? The neuron state is impacted by: neurotransmitters, electromagnetic fields, the chemical soup that it sits in, etc. An interesting example of how non-simple this stuff is: a new study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-024-06778-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-024-06778-2) where both the intracellular calcium level and the membrane potential were measured at the same time. The result: The membrane potential encoded the presence of an odor The intracellular calcium level encoded the magnitude of the odor
- webnrrd2k 2y ago
  Hormones, I think... I'm not sure exactly what the g.p. post is referring to, but in people there are a lot of non-direct interactions, too. The one's I'm (only slightly) familiar with are hormones. Maybe there are others?
- eli_gottlieb 2y ago
  "Hidden interactions" in c. elegans typically refers to chemical signaling rather than electrical. Of course, chemical signaling is tolerated in all nervous systems whenever its slow speed doesn't bring down the cruel hammer of natural selection. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt17kk982 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt17kk982
- cyberax 2y ago
  > How is that possible? Chemical signals, including spillovers of neurotransmitters. I'm trying to find the post, but it was 20 years ago.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    No worries, thanks for looking! I'm still new to learning about a lot of this stuff, and didn't realize neurons in the body could use chemical signals to communicate with the brain. I still don't see how that indicates their brain is more advanced than we might think, though. What are the reasons to assume that?