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Basically I can't dee how investing in micro strategy is better than buying btc directly

qeternity 2y ago
Because MSTR has two legs to the trade: BTC returns + NAV premium/discount. It is a better trade if the premium continues to rally. Otherwise it’s a worse trade.
- TZubiri 2y ago
  I think some boomers would prefer to invest in a company which holds btc, or fund, and pay a premium not to touch it directly. Premium goes to techies and lawyers and stuff.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Overpaying because you expect less savvy people to overpay you more when you exit is not a sound investment thesis.
    - TZubiri 2y ago
      Not less savvy, more savvy. Boomer does not know about bitcoin wallets. Engineer at MicroStrategy does.
  - qeternity 2y ago
    There are numerous ETFs which hold BTC. This is not why money is flowing in to MSTR.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  So overpaying vs NAV because in hope the next greater fool with overpay NAV by even more. Nice.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
itsalwaysgood 2y ago
I would invest in micro strategy if I cared about Bitcoin because I don't want to mess with wallets or pay someone to manage my wallet. Banks can do fractional reserve banking to 'pay' for the expense of storing our money. Can crypto wallets do such a thing? Or would they have to borrow money?
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Bitcoin exposure without the hassle of wallets can be solved with a bitcoin etf. No need to punt on some NAV premium infinite money ponzi.
  - itsalwaysgood 2y ago
    That's true. In fact, I would go for one of the ETFs before investing with MicroStrategy.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  Some exhanges like coinbase are basically banks at this point. You open an acccount, you do a kyc, you declare it to the state, and they are submitted to regulations in your country. Coinbase is an expensive one, but way cheaper than micro strategy, and is from y combinator s12 so you know what to expect. Deal with an exhange directly, it's cheaper, and more flexible. No wallet to manage, and you can handle a few millions before even having to talk to a human. Of course you lose a lot of advantages of crypto, but you were going to with micro strategy anyway. Or buy an etf if you really like your bank. Although I would argue now is the worse time to buy. You had to buy last year, or wait until 2 years, assuming the halving cycle is still relevant, which I believe it is. It is expected from most crypto holders that we are not that far from the top and the usual crash back is near. Some my friends are still in, but have placed their exit orders already. I'm already out with a 500% profit and play it safe. You may be able to get some more, but it's getting riskier by the day. And maybe the cycle will break, but it's really not what I would bet on.
isthatafact 2y ago
I am also waiting for someone to explain it coherently. It essentially allows you to buy bitcoin at 3x the market price. (mstr market cap is about 3x the bitcoin it holds) People seem to equate that as meaning that the future stock price will grow at a faster rate than the price of bitcoin, but that would require the premium to grow to an even larger factor than the current 3x. It also ignores the reality that a falling bitcoin price should completely wipe out the premium of stock price over net asset value (if we are to apply any common sense). Of course I might be missing some great insight that makes it something other than a really stupid gamble.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  So far all the explanations are yada yada yada magic. Buy bitcoin. Buy a bitcoin etf. But don’t buy a wrapper on bitcoin at a premium to the underlying bitcoin. Eventually this collapses on itself.
latchkey 2y ago
I used my 401k to invest in MSTR. In fact, when I figured out what Saylor was doing, I put all of it in MSTR, in 2021. I'm up 700-800% right now. It wasn't an easy ride, but long term it was the right choice for me. It isn't that much much money because I stopped contributing to it about 15 years ago (instead opting to do what you said, buy BTC directly), but my 401k has never seen that sort of growth. With the fairly recent split, I can now sell covered call options. I generally sell OTM and then use the proceed from that to buy more MSTR. My goal is to compound the stock, not dollars. It will split again, enabling me to compound again. Once you spend the time understanding what he is doing, you will understand the value in investing in both. It definitely takes an acceptance that Bitcoin won't go to zero, but if you can get past that, as he has done, then the risk profile changes dramatically.

Because MSTR has two legs to the trade: BTC returns + NAV premium/discount. It is a better trade if the premium continues to rally. Otherwise it’s a worse trade.

TZubiri 2y ago
I think some boomers would prefer to invest in a company which holds btc, or fund, and pay a premium not to touch it directly. Premium goes to techies and lawyers and stuff.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Overpaying because you expect less savvy people to overpay you more when you exit is not a sound investment thesis.
  - TZubiri 2y ago
    Not less savvy, more savvy. Boomer does not know about bitcoin wallets. Engineer at MicroStrategy does.
- qeternity 2y ago
  There are numerous ETFs which hold BTC. This is not why money is flowing in to MSTR.
steveBK123 2y ago
So overpaying vs NAV because in hope the next greater fool with overpay NAV by even more. Nice.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

itsalwaysgood 2y ago

I would invest in micro strategy if I cared about Bitcoin because I don't want to mess with wallets or pay someone to manage my wallet. Banks can do fractional reserve banking to 'pay' for the expense of storing our money. Can crypto wallets do such a thing? Or would they have to borrow money?

steveBK123 2y ago
Bitcoin exposure without the hassle of wallets can be solved with a bitcoin etf. No need to punt on some NAV premium infinite money ponzi.
- itsalwaysgood 2y ago
  That's true. In fact, I would go for one of the ETFs before investing with MicroStrategy.
BiteCode_dev 2y ago
Some exhanges like coinbase are basically banks at this point. You open an acccount, you do a kyc, you declare it to the state, and they are submitted to regulations in your country. Coinbase is an expensive one, but way cheaper than micro strategy, and is from y combinator s12 so you know what to expect. Deal with an exhange directly, it's cheaper, and more flexible. No wallet to manage, and you can handle a few millions before even having to talk to a human. Of course you lose a lot of advantages of crypto, but you were going to with micro strategy anyway. Or buy an etf if you really like your bank. Although I would argue now is the worse time to buy. You had to buy last year, or wait until 2 years, assuming the halving cycle is still relevant, which I believe it is. It is expected from most crypto holders that we are not that far from the top and the usual crash back is near. Some my friends are still in, but have placed their exit orders already. I'm already out with a 500% profit and play it safe. You may be able to get some more, but it's getting riskier by the day. And maybe the cycle will break, but it's really not what I would bet on.

isthatafact 2y ago

I am also waiting for someone to explain it coherently. It essentially allows you to buy bitcoin at 3x the market price. (mstr market cap is about 3x the bitcoin it holds) People seem to equate that as meaning that the future stock price will grow at a faster rate than the price of bitcoin, but that would require the premium to grow to an even larger factor than the current 3x. It also ignores the reality that a falling bitcoin price should completely wipe out the premium of stock price over net asset value (if we are to apply any common sense). Of course I might be missing some great insight that makes it something other than a really stupid gamble.

steveBK123 2y ago
So far all the explanations are yada yada yada magic. Buy bitcoin. Buy a bitcoin etf. But don’t buy a wrapper on bitcoin at a premium to the underlying bitcoin. Eventually this collapses on itself.

latchkey 2y ago

I used my 401k to invest in MSTR. In fact, when I figured out what Saylor was doing, I put all of it in MSTR, in 2021. I'm up 700-800% right now. It wasn't an easy ride, but long term it was the right choice for me. It isn't that much much money because I stopped contributing to it about 15 years ago (instead opting to do what you said, buy BTC directly), but my 401k has never seen that sort of growth. With the fairly recent split, I can now sell covered call options. I generally sell OTM and then use the proceed from that to buy more MSTR. My goal is to compound the stock, not dollars. It will split again, enabling me to compound again. Once you spend the time understanding what he is doing, you will understand the value in investing in both. It definitely takes an acceptance that Bitcoin won't go to zero, but if you can get past that, as he has done, then the risk profile changes dramatically.