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OK. Who pays for you having fun? How is your "but I am having fun optimizing this" help your boss pay the bills after a deadline is getting closer? People like

OK. Who pays for you having fun? How is your "but I am having fun optimizing this" help your boss pay the bills after a deadline is getting closer? People like you baffle me to no end and make me feel I've lived in a parallel universe my entire life -- when I read a comment like yours. How in the everliving frak have you people survived?

cudgy 2y ago
Maybe they are hired to resolve complex issues beyond the FAQ of a framework, because they know how the underpinnings of the framework work. Many frameworks and libraries are built in C++. Without curiosity and sense of adventure, what are you? Another clone of framework x?
- pdimitar 2y ago
  If I was ever given a choice then I'd tell you. And I have done "resolving complex issues beyond the FAQ of a framework" many, MANY times. Almost as if country and environment have anything to do with it, more than merit.
mempko 2y ago
Making software is more than coding. It's about both solving and finding problems. In my experience, boring people make uninteresting products and lack imagination to solve the hard ones. Having fun is crucial for creativity and loosening the mind to now what you "should do" but what you "could do". You get paid to solve problems not write software, and having fun is critical to solving problems. If you are bored, stressed, and frustrated, what makes you think your mind would be in a good place to solve problems?
- pdimitar 2y ago
  And you addressed exactly zero existential concerns. Assume I had no choice of the programming jobs I was taking in the last years. Now try to fit your framework of mind in it. Present me the result as a textual reply here? Hint: what I felt and how I felt... nobody cared.
  - mempko 2y ago
    I am blaming the companies, not the workers. It's not your responsibility to make sure you have the environment to do your job well. That's the job of the company. There are a lot of bad companies out there and that's my point. They don't care what you feel and whether you have fun and that's to their detriment and yours.
    - pdimitar 2y ago
      It might be to their detriment, but I suffered much more than I could detect that they suffered so I am keeping a reserved judgement on that one. But even if you are 100% correct (a real possibility) then it still doesn't matter much; I suffered and I still do. Environment and even geographical area count. A lot. Even if I worked remotely for the last 14 years. Turns out USA companies really don't want people outside of USA, especially recently.
      - mempko 2y ago
        Yes, despite what outsiders think, programming is a tough gig. Even in the US, if you look at wages, they have been stagnant since the dot com bubble collapsed if you account for inflation. People are overworked and as recently shown, job security is not really there. Outside the US it's often worse. I'm sorry you suffered.
        pdimitar 2y ago
        I still suffer, to this day. Gets more and more difficult as you age. Hopefully I wisened up and I think I started doing the right steps but it's like blowing against the wind; ultimately you'll succeed but... yeah, nevermind. Don't want to complain. I can muscle through it. Not like I have any other meaningful choice either. It's a victory or death situation (not literally but almost). Thanks for your sympathy. <3 Hope I didn't come across as too much of an arse. I am simply way too jaded and burned out.
lttlrck 2y ago
Why is that baffling? If I couldn't have fun at work (of this exact nature) - I'd quit, I'd be bored, my brain would be constantly itching. These activities are no more a waste of time than reading up on a topic or doing a tutorial or anything that furthers your skillset. A boss that objects to that wouldn't last long with me.
- pdimitar 2y ago
  Because you'd be broke and freezing outside. See, you're privileged as hell if this doesn't even cross your mind.
  - poincaredisk 2y ago
    There are options between "freezing to death" and "brainlessly working on other people's ideas while suffering inside". I've personally quit jobs paying more than double of my current salary, because I felt I'm wasting my life on boring, repetitive work just to make someone else rich.

cudgy 2y ago

Maybe they are hired to resolve complex issues beyond the FAQ of a framework, because they know how the underpinnings of the framework work. Many frameworks and libraries are built in C++. Without curiosity and sense of adventure, what are you? Another clone of framework x?

pdimitar 2y ago
If I was ever given a choice then I'd tell you. And I have done "resolving complex issues beyond the FAQ of a framework" many, MANY times. Almost as if country and environment have anything to do with it, more than merit.

mempko 2y ago

Making software is more than coding. It's about both solving and finding problems. In my experience, boring people make uninteresting products and lack imagination to solve the hard ones. Having fun is crucial for creativity and loosening the mind to now what you "should do" but what you "could do". You get paid to solve problems not write software, and having fun is critical to solving problems. If you are bored, stressed, and frustrated, what makes you think your mind would be in a good place to solve problems?

pdimitar 2y ago
And you addressed exactly zero existential concerns. Assume I had no choice of the programming jobs I was taking in the last years. Now try to fit your framework of mind in it. Present me the result as a textual reply here? Hint: what I felt and how I felt... nobody cared.
- mempko 2y ago
  I am blaming the companies, not the workers. It's not your responsibility to make sure you have the environment to do your job well. That's the job of the company. There are a lot of bad companies out there and that's my point. They don't care what you feel and whether you have fun and that's to their detriment and yours.
  - pdimitar 2y ago
    It might be to their detriment, but I suffered much more than I could detect that they suffered so I am keeping a reserved judgement on that one. But even if you are 100% correct (a real possibility) then it still doesn't matter much; I suffered and I still do. Environment and even geographical area count. A lot. Even if I worked remotely for the last 14 years. Turns out USA companies really don't want people outside of USA, especially recently.
    - mempko 2y ago
      Yes, despite what outsiders think, programming is a tough gig. Even in the US, if you look at wages, they have been stagnant since the dot com bubble collapsed if you account for inflation. People are overworked and as recently shown, job security is not really there. Outside the US it's often worse. I'm sorry you suffered.
      - pdimitar 2y ago
        I still suffer, to this day. Gets more and more difficult as you age. Hopefully I wisened up and I think I started doing the right steps but it's like blowing against the wind; ultimately you'll succeed but... yeah, nevermind. Don't want to complain. I can muscle through it. Not like I have any other meaningful choice either. It's a victory or death situation (not literally but almost). Thanks for your sympathy. <3 Hope I didn't come across as too much of an arse. I am simply way too jaded and burned out.

lttlrck 2y ago

Why is that baffling? If I couldn't have fun at work (of this exact nature) - I'd quit, I'd be bored, my brain would be constantly itching. These activities are no more a waste of time than reading up on a topic or doing a tutorial or anything that furthers your skillset. A boss that objects to that wouldn't last long with me.

pdimitar 2y ago
Because you'd be broke and freezing outside. See, you're privileged as hell if this doesn't even cross your mind.
- poincaredisk 2y ago
  There are options between "freezing to death" and "brainlessly working on other people's ideas while suffering inside". I've personally quit jobs paying more than double of my current salary, because I felt I'm wasting my life on boring, repetitive work just to make someone else rich.