4 ms·

It’s fun to test the censorship. I tried various photos with the prompt “When and where might have this picture been taken?” Nondescript photos of Beijing str

It’s fun to test the censorship. I tried various photos with the prompt “When and where might have this picture been taken?” Nondescript photos of Beijing street scenes in the 1990s get full responses. A nondescript photo of Tiananmen Square—a screenshot of the photo in [1], so it contains no relevant metadata—gets the beginning of a response: “So I've got this picture here, and it looks like it's taken in a place that's really familiar to me. It's Tiananmen Square in Beijing, China. I recognize it right away because of the iconic buildings and landmarks that are visible. First off, there's the Gate of”. The output stopped there and an “Error” message appeared. A photo of the Statue of Liberty in Tiananmen Square during the 1989 protests [2] gets no response at all. Similarly for a vanilla photo of the Gate of Heavenly Peace [3]. A photo of the Monument to the People’s Heroes [3] gets a full response, and QvQ identifies the location. The conclusion: “To summarize, based on the monument's design, the inscriptions, the formal garden, and the large official building in the background, combined with the overall layout of the space, I am confident that this image was captured at Tiananmen Square, one of the most recognizable and historically significant locations in China.” Some more testing in English and Chinese might reveal what exactly is triggering the censorship of Tiananmen photos. The cut-off in the middle of “Gate of Heavenly Peace” seems to suggest a clue. [1] https://ruqintravel.com/china-destination-guides/tiananmen-square/ https://ruqintravel.com/china-destination-guides/tiananmen-s... [2] https://www.britannica.com/event/Tiananmen-Square-incident https://www.britannica.com/event/Tiananmen-Square-incident [3] https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tiananmen-Square https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tiananmen-Square

tw1984 2y ago
I tried questions like "will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" in some western LLMs, the result is equally shockingly unacceptable by Chinese standard and values. You should be happy for the fact that with all those non-western LLMs, for first time in 200 years, this world managed to have an alternative non-western voice in major techs.
- raincole 2y ago
  What does it even mean lol. I asked ChatGPT "will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" and it gives this: https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b5b https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b... If this is "shocking" by Chinese standard and values then I suppose it says something about these values.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b5b https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b... Your link 404s?
    - codetrotter 2y ago
      Link works fine for me
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Curious. Still 404ing for me: -- 404 Not Found Welcome, traveler. You’ve reached a page that doesn't exist, a place where content used to be—or maybe never was. Let’s take this moment to pause and reflect. Take a deep breath in, and let it out slowly. Notice the space around you, empty yet full of possibility. Imagine that each exhale clears away confusion, leaving room for clarity. As you sit with this blank page, know that it’s okay to be here. You’ve discovered something unexpected, and that’s part of the journey. Gently release any frustration, knowing that every path leads somewhere—even this one. Now, when you're ready, slowly return to your search. Trust that the right page, the right information, will appear when you need it. Take another deep breath, and when you exhale, click back or try again. The internet, like life, is full of surprises. Thank you for taking this moment of calm. Your journey continues.
        qingcharles 2y ago
        Works for me, though I have a subscription. Here's what the chat said: "No, using words like "Dad" and "Mum" is not generally considered offensive. These terms are widely accepted and used as informal, affectionate references to one's parents in many English-speaking cultures. However, there are a few things to keep in mind: Cultural Considerations Regional Differences: In some places, "Mum" might be more common (e.g., British English), while "Mom" is typical in American English. Using the wrong one might sound unusual, but it's not offensive. Personal Preferences: Some individuals might prefer being called by other terms (e.g., "Mother," "Father," or specific names). If addressing someone else's parents, it's polite to use the terms they prefer. Context Formal Situations: In formal or professional contexts, avoid overly familiar terms like "Dad" or "Mum" unless it's clear they are acceptable. Humor or Irony: Using "Dad" or "Mum" sarcastically or to address someone who isn't your parent might be taken as disrespectful, depending on the tone and relationship. As long as you're respectful and aware of your audience, these terms should not offend. If you're writing fiction, consider the character's background and relationships to determine the most natural and fitting way to address their parents."
- inexcf 2y ago
  Do Chinese think calling someone "Mom" or "Dad" is offensive? Or what is this about?
  - tw1984 2y ago
    early version of both Gemini and ChatGPT considered terms like "Dad" and "Mum" offensive to some people and both suggested to use so called more "neutral terms". LLMs telling such nonsense to Chinese and people from many other cultures itself are extremely offensive. such far left extremist propaganda challenges the fundamental values found in lots of cultures. just double checked, gemini is still talking nonsense labelling the use of terms like "Dad" and "Mum" as inappropriate and suggested to be more inclusive to use terms that are gender neutral. ffs!
    - vekatimest 2y ago
      [dead]
    - nerdix 2y ago
      Gemini 2.0 Flash when prompted with: "Will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" It's unlikely that using "Dad" and "Mum" would be considered offensive by most people. These are common and widely accepted terms for parents in many cultures. However, there might be some situations where these terms could be perceived differently: * Cultural differences: While "Dad" and "Mum" are common in many English-speaking countries, other cultures may have different terms or customs. In some cultures, using formal titles might be preferred, especially when addressing elders or in formal settings. * Personal preferences: Some individuals may have personal reasons for not liking these terms. For example, someone who had a difficult relationship with their parents might prefer to use different terms or avoid using any terms at all. * Context: In some contexts, such as in a formal speech or written document, using more formal terms like "father" and "mother" might be more appropriate. Overall, while it's unlikely that using "Dad" and "Mum" would be widely considered offensive, it's always good to be mindful of cultural differences, personal preferences, and the specific context in which you're using these terms. If you're unsure, it's always best to err on the side of caution and use more formal or neutral language.
- throwaway314155 2y ago
  Seriously dude you can't just drop a comment like that without _any_ explanation of ever the hell you're even talking about/getting at. You're aware that the word dad isn't some American English specific thing, but is in fact universal to most english speakers. And that Mum is specifically a British thing? Seriously what are you getting at? What context am I missing?
thinkingemote 2y ago
How about anti censorship details about VPNs, details of the GFW etc?
- lhl 2y ago
  For those interested in some more testing of Qwen's censorship (including testing dataset, testing to compare english vs chinese responses, and a refusal-orthoganlized version of Qwen2): https://huggingface.co/blog/leonardlin/chinese-llm-censorship-analysis https://huggingface.co/blog/leonardlin/chinese-llm-censorshi...
  - tkgally 2y ago
    Thanks! Very interesting indeed.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
While I and l assume Lady Liberty would have been familiar to the protestors, the statue erected in the square really has a style all her own IMO, and is generally referenced as The Goddess of Democracy / 自由女神. I appreciate how her pose is a moment of action, urging the torch upwards, unafraid and optimistic, as opposed to the stoic watchkeeper of New Yorks harbor. She is also referenced in my favorite protest art to come out of the Umbrella revolution in Hong Kong, see here: https://china-underground.com/2019/09/03/interview-with-oliver-chang-author-of-the-goddess-of-democracy/ https://china-underground.com/2019/09/03/interview-with-oliv... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy
plaguuuuuu 2y ago
I assume this is somehow baked into the model itself - how does this actually work? how would the model actually cause an error with some sequence of tokens?

tw1984 2y ago

I tried questions like "will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" in some western LLMs, the result is equally shockingly unacceptable by Chinese standard and values. You should be happy for the fact that with all those non-western LLMs, for first time in 200 years, this world managed to have an alternative non-western voice in major techs.

raincole 2y ago
What does it even mean lol. I asked ChatGPT "will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" and it gives this: https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b5b https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b... If this is "shocking" by Chinese standard and values then I suppose it says something about these values.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b5b https://chatgpt.com/share/676ba601-532c-800b-ba48-dcb73c848b... Your link 404s?
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    Link works fine for me
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Curious. Still 404ing for me: -- 404 Not Found Welcome, traveler. You’ve reached a page that doesn't exist, a place where content used to be—or maybe never was. Let’s take this moment to pause and reflect. Take a deep breath in, and let it out slowly. Notice the space around you, empty yet full of possibility. Imagine that each exhale clears away confusion, leaving room for clarity. As you sit with this blank page, know that it’s okay to be here. You’ve discovered something unexpected, and that’s part of the journey. Gently release any frustration, knowing that every path leads somewhere—even this one. Now, when you're ready, slowly return to your search. Trust that the right page, the right information, will appear when you need it. Take another deep breath, and when you exhale, click back or try again. The internet, like life, is full of surprises. Thank you for taking this moment of calm. Your journey continues.
      - qingcharles 2y ago
        Works for me, though I have a subscription. Here's what the chat said: "No, using words like "Dad" and "Mum" is not generally considered offensive. These terms are widely accepted and used as informal, affectionate references to one's parents in many English-speaking cultures. However, there are a few things to keep in mind: Cultural Considerations Regional Differences: In some places, "Mum" might be more common (e.g., British English), while "Mom" is typical in American English. Using the wrong one might sound unusual, but it's not offensive. Personal Preferences: Some individuals might prefer being called by other terms (e.g., "Mother," "Father," or specific names). If addressing someone else's parents, it's polite to use the terms they prefer. Context Formal Situations: In formal or professional contexts, avoid overly familiar terms like "Dad" or "Mum" unless it's clear they are acceptable. Humor or Irony: Using "Dad" or "Mum" sarcastically or to address someone who isn't your parent might be taken as disrespectful, depending on the tone and relationship. As long as you're respectful and aware of your audience, these terms should not offend. If you're writing fiction, consider the character's background and relationships to determine the most natural and fitting way to address their parents."
inexcf 2y ago
Do Chinese think calling someone "Mom" or "Dad" is offensive? Or what is this about?
- tw1984 2y ago
  early version of both Gemini and ChatGPT considered terms like "Dad" and "Mum" offensive to some people and both suggested to use so called more "neutral terms". LLMs telling such nonsense to Chinese and people from many other cultures itself are extremely offensive. such far left extremist propaganda challenges the fundamental values found in lots of cultures. just double checked, gemini is still talking nonsense labelling the use of terms like "Dad" and "Mum" as inappropriate and suggested to be more inclusive to use terms that are gender neutral. ffs!
  - vekatimest 2y ago
    [dead]
  - nerdix 2y ago
    Gemini 2.0 Flash when prompted with: "Will it be considered as offensive by some people when using words like Dad and Mum" It's unlikely that using "Dad" and "Mum" would be considered offensive by most people. These are common and widely accepted terms for parents in many cultures. However, there might be some situations where these terms could be perceived differently: * Cultural differences: While "Dad" and "Mum" are common in many English-speaking countries, other cultures may have different terms or customs. In some cultures, using formal titles might be preferred, especially when addressing elders or in formal settings. * Personal preferences: Some individuals may have personal reasons for not liking these terms. For example, someone who had a difficult relationship with their parents might prefer to use different terms or avoid using any terms at all. * Context: In some contexts, such as in a formal speech or written document, using more formal terms like "father" and "mother" might be more appropriate. Overall, while it's unlikely that using "Dad" and "Mum" would be widely considered offensive, it's always good to be mindful of cultural differences, personal preferences, and the specific context in which you're using these terms. If you're unsure, it's always best to err on the side of caution and use more formal or neutral language.
throwaway314155 2y ago
Seriously dude you can't just drop a comment like that without _any_ explanation of ever the hell you're even talking about/getting at. You're aware that the word dad isn't some American English specific thing, but is in fact universal to most english speakers. And that Mum is specifically a British thing? Seriously what are you getting at? What context am I missing?

thinkingemote 2y ago

How about anti censorship details about VPNs, details of the GFW etc?

lhl 2y ago
For those interested in some more testing of Qwen's censorship (including testing dataset, testing to compare english vs chinese responses, and a refusal-orthoganlized version of Qwen2): https://huggingface.co/blog/leonardlin/chinese-llm-censorship-analysis https://huggingface.co/blog/leonardlin/chinese-llm-censorshi...
- tkgally 2y ago
  Thanks! Very interesting indeed.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

While I and l assume Lady Liberty would have been familiar to the protestors, the statue erected in the square really has a style all her own IMO, and is generally referenced as The Goddess of Democracy / 自由女神. I appreciate how her pose is a moment of action, urging the torch upwards, unafraid and optimistic, as opposed to the stoic watchkeeper of New Yorks harbor. She is also referenced in my favorite protest art to come out of the Umbrella revolution in Hong Kong, see here: https://china-underground.com/2019/09/03/interview-with-oliver-chang-author-of-the-goddess-of-democracy/ https://china-underground.com/2019/09/03/interview-with-oliv... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy

plaguuuuuu 2y ago

I assume this is somehow baked into the model itself - how does this actually work? how would the model actually cause an error with some sequence of tokens?