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>> but are not given time to do good design Most professionals have to wrestle with time constraints. Push hard enough and at some point the carpenter/doctor/c

>> but are not given time to do good design Most professionals have to wrestle with time constraints. Push hard enough and at some point the carpenter/doctor/civil engineer/whatever firmly says “no”. What’s the difference in software that unbounded tech debt is permissible? Clients regularly tell carpenters to “just do X” against the professional’s better judgement. The carpenter isn’t going to call the collapsing Jerry rigged staircase tech debt, instead they tell the client “no, I won’t do it”. Our profession generally lacks sufficient apprenticeship. We could learn a thing or two from student doctors doing their rounds.

sokoloff 2y ago
At least the doctors’ difficult, lengthy, and expensive credentials are fairly relevant to their apprenticeship experience. I don’t give CS degrees the same benefit of relevance.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cratermoon 2y ago
  Harsh, but largely true. But is it academia that isn't working on things relevant to practitioners, or is it practitioners ignoring academia while chasing hype and frameworkism?
- mulmen 2y ago
  Very little of corporate software development requires any computer science knowledge. Most of us aren’t on the bleeding edge of anything. We need programmers who understand mature (aka boring) technology. Corporate software development is a trade. It’s like plumbing or running a CNC mill.
saghm 2y ago
> Clients regularly tell carpenters to “just do X” against the professional’s better judgement. The carpenter isn’t going to call the collapsing Jerry rigged staircase tech debt, instead they tell the client “no, I won’t do it”. > Our profession generally lacks sufficient apprenticeship. We could learn a thing or two from student doctors doing their rounds. I'm not sure how apprenticeship would solve this problem in software. To me, the difference seems to be that unlike carpenters, most people in software don't work on a contract basis for specific clients, but as an employee of a specific company. We don't have the authority to just refuse to do what we're told, and even in fairly good workplaces where you can voice technical disagreement without fear of repercussions, at the end of the day you'll often get overruled and have to go along with what you're told.

sokoloff 2y ago

At least the doctors’ difficult, lengthy, and expensive credentials are fairly relevant to their apprenticeship experience. I don’t give CS degrees the same benefit of relevance.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cratermoon 2y ago
Harsh, but largely true. But is it academia that isn't working on things relevant to practitioners, or is it practitioners ignoring academia while chasing hype and frameworkism?
mulmen 2y ago
Very little of corporate software development requires any computer science knowledge. Most of us aren’t on the bleeding edge of anything. We need programmers who understand mature (aka boring) technology. Corporate software development is a trade. It’s like plumbing or running a CNC mill.

saghm 2y ago

> Clients regularly tell carpenters to “just do X” against the professional’s better judgement. The carpenter isn’t going to call the collapsing Jerry rigged staircase tech debt, instead they tell the client “no, I won’t do it”. > Our profession generally lacks sufficient apprenticeship. We could learn a thing or two from student doctors doing their rounds. I'm not sure how apprenticeship would solve this problem in software. To me, the difference seems to be that unlike carpenters, most people in software don't work on a contract basis for specific clients, but as an employee of a specific company. We don't have the authority to just refuse to do what we're told, and even in fairly good workplaces where you can voice technical disagreement without fear of repercussions, at the end of the day you'll often get overruled and have to go along with what you're told.