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The article says Cloudflare has tried to geoblock just certain IPs in Italy but what if Cloudflare tells Italy to stuff it and just withdraws from providing ser

The article says Cloudflare has tried to geoblock just certain IPs in Italy but what if Cloudflare tells Italy to stuff it and just withdraws from providing services to the country entirely?

rad_gruchalski 2y ago
[flagged]
- brightball 2y ago
  What happened there?
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    A Brazilian judge named Alexandre de Moraes was going on a power trip, banning content and even people outright from social media. He issued unilateral orders to Twitter/X to perform this state censorship. Twitter/X refused, even though they comply with such orders elsewhere, because the orders were unconstitutional per Brazil’s own constitution. They also went public with the orders despite gag orders from this judge to keep the censorship secret. News outlets like the NYT have labeled de Moraes as a threat to democracy (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-ale...), for his long standing crusade against various activists, journalists, and politicians. The judge the issued orders to arrest Twitter’s lawyers in Brazil or something like that, which seemed very aggresive. So this turned into an international fiasco. The judge eventually ordered Brazil’s ISPs to block Twitter/X. That ban lasted for a little bit and then for some unknown reasons (maybe conversations between Twitter/X and the judge?) Twitter/X access was restored but some partial amount (?) of censorship was performed. Along the way Twitter/X also launched an account detailing the kind of censorship that had been forced on them in secret, along with comparisons against Brazilian law (https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479 https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479).
- placardloop 2y ago
  That’s not an apt comparison. X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law, so Brazil suspended them. The parent commenter is talking about Cloudflare stopping operations in Italy of their own accord.
  - jimbob45 2y ago
    X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law That’s certainly one way to characterize that situation.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    > X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law, so Brazil suspended them. It looks like the judge in question violated Brazilian law, specifically the constitution: https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479/photo/1 https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479/phot...
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    > The parent commenter is talking about Cloudflare stopping operations in Italy of their own accord. The end result is the same.
    - placardloop 2y ago
      Just because the end result is the same doesn’t make it an accurate comparison or an insightful comment, especially given your comment was about motivations, not results.
      - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        No clue how you arrived at a conclusion that my comment was about motivation. But who cares, you know better what I said.
DanAtC 2y ago
Cisco did in France: https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-us/articles/27951404269204-OpenDNS-Service-Not-Available-To-Users-In-France-and-Portugal https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-us/articles/27951404269204...
nulld3v 2y ago
The problem with this is that it contributes more to internet censorship in that country compared to handling and fighting against each individual censorship request.
- idunnoman1222 2y ago
  So who cares they voted for this
donor20 2y ago
I think fine to order blocking in Italy - it's an italian court after all. But if they start doing the sort of global blocks folks have tried with X, then just withdraw services.
jonny_eh 2y ago
CF's customers may not like that.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  Take it up with the government that forced the choice.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    You mean fire the government trying to destroy a free and open internet, while they still have the choice to do it. I really wish there was more of this whole sale firing of representatives that betray the interests of their country to support the megacorps
RantyDave 2y ago
I'm sure someone in Cloudflare did the math before they went to court and decided their business in Italy was worth saving. If it was, say, the Channel Islands they'd probably just tell them to stuff it.

The article says Cloudflare has tried to geoblock just certain IPs in Italy but what if Cloudflare tells Italy to stuff it and just withdraws from providing services to the country entirely?

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

[flagged]

brightball 2y ago
What happened there?
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  A Brazilian judge named Alexandre de Moraes was going on a power trip, banning content and even people outright from social media. He issued unilateral orders to Twitter/X to perform this state censorship. Twitter/X refused, even though they comply with such orders elsewhere, because the orders were unconstitutional per Brazil’s own constitution. They also went public with the orders despite gag orders from this judge to keep the censorship secret. News outlets like the NYT have labeled de Moraes as a threat to democracy (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-ale...), for his long standing crusade against various activists, journalists, and politicians. The judge the issued orders to arrest Twitter’s lawyers in Brazil or something like that, which seemed very aggresive. So this turned into an international fiasco. The judge eventually ordered Brazil’s ISPs to block Twitter/X. That ban lasted for a little bit and then for some unknown reasons (maybe conversations between Twitter/X and the judge?) Twitter/X access was restored but some partial amount (?) of censorship was performed. Along the way Twitter/X also launched an account detailing the kind of censorship that had been forced on them in secret, along with comparisons against Brazilian law (https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479 https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479).
placardloop 2y ago
That’s not an apt comparison. X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law, so Brazil suspended them. The parent commenter is talking about Cloudflare stopping operations in Italy of their own accord.
- jimbob45 2y ago
  X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law That’s certainly one way to characterize that situation.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > X wanted to keep operating in Brazil without following the law, so Brazil suspended them. It looks like the judge in question violated Brazilian law, specifically the constitution: https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479/photo/1 https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829979981130416479/phot...
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  > The parent commenter is talking about Cloudflare stopping operations in Italy of their own accord. The end result is the same.
  - placardloop 2y ago
    Just because the end result is the same doesn’t make it an accurate comparison or an insightful comment, especially given your comment was about motivations, not results.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      No clue how you arrived at a conclusion that my comment was about motivation. But who cares, you know better what I said.

DanAtC 2y ago

Cisco did in France: https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-us/articles/27951404269204-OpenDNS-Service-Not-Available-To-Users-In-France-and-Portugal https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-us/articles/27951404269204...

nulld3v 2y ago

The problem with this is that it contributes more to internet censorship in that country compared to handling and fighting against each individual censorship request.

idunnoman1222 2y ago
So who cares they voted for this

donor20 2y ago

I think fine to order blocking in Italy - it's an italian court after all. But if they start doing the sort of global blocks folks have tried with X, then just withdraw services.

jonny_eh 2y ago

CF's customers may not like that.

BadHumans 2y ago
Take it up with the government that forced the choice.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  You mean fire the government trying to destroy a free and open internet, while they still have the choice to do it. I really wish there was more of this whole sale firing of representatives that betray the interests of their country to support the megacorps

RantyDave 2y ago

I'm sure someone in Cloudflare did the math before they went to court and decided their business in Italy was worth saving. If it was, say, the Channel Islands they'd probably just tell them to stuff it.