4 ms·

Poverty often comes with crime and other problems. I don't think anyone likes that in their neighbourhood.

by tgv 2y ago

campbel 2y ago
Sure, but as OP said, consumers are short sighted. Communal issues will always be secondary to immediate personal issues.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Consumers are short sighted. On this we can agree. But are they short sighted because they are taught to be short sighted, or is this some irrevocable aspect of the human condition? If you grow up in a society that emphases the virtues of individuality and deemphasises the impact of the social/group condition upon your own lived experience, it's not really surprising that you'd rate "immediate personal issues" above "communal" ones.
  - hooverd 2y ago
    Consumers want to eat cake and lose weight. I think "the tragedy of the commons" isn't universal. It's an argument for enclosure. But the commons can be run over by people who don't believe in communal good and instead want to be doing the enclosure.
  - campbel 2y ago
    Good points. Social reinforcement could play a role as well, e.g. is it frowned upon to engage in certain consumer behaviors.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      Not just frowned upon. Think about the difference it would make if everyone was more aware of the personal cost to them of poverty, homelessness and so forth? In the current world, living in a place that doesn't do things the way the US does can accomplish this (at least temporarily).
deleted 2y ago
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onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
First - let's think about who thinks like this primarily: Relatively wealthy people in suburban or rural areas (who are by no means actually wealthy by American standards). Poverty isn't going to affect their neighborhoods. You don't go from having a $750k house on the outskirts of a suburb of Atlanta or Dallas or a $500k house in Montgomery Al or Jackson MS to suddenly being overwhelmed with neighborhood poverty because Walmart comes in or a bunch of unions in town get busted. The affects will be felt in the suburban center where the lower middle class and poorer renters live. The crime that follows will almost exclusively be problems for OTHER people. If they have this thinking, they couldn't care less about crime in YOUR neighborhood. You can bet, for sure, if crime makes its way to THEIR neighborhood, they'll immediately get more police force - probably paid for primarily at YOUR expense.

Poverty often comes with crime and other problems. I don't think anyone likes that in their neighbourhood.

by tgv 2y ago

Poverty often comes with crime and other problems. I don't think anyone likes that in their neighbourhood.

Sure, but as OP said, consumers are short sighted. Communal issues will always be secondary to immediate personal issues.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
Consumers are short sighted. On this we can agree. But are they short sighted because they are taught to be short sighted, or is this some irrevocable aspect of the human condition? If you grow up in a society that emphases the virtues of individuality and deemphasises the impact of the social/group condition upon your own lived experience, it's not really surprising that you'd rate "immediate personal issues" above "communal" ones.
- hooverd 2y ago
  Consumers want to eat cake and lose weight. I think "the tragedy of the commons" isn't universal. It's an argument for enclosure. But the commons can be run over by people who don't believe in communal good and instead want to be doing the enclosure.
- campbel 2y ago
  Good points. Social reinforcement could play a role as well, e.g. is it frowned upon to engage in certain consumer behaviors.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Not just frowned upon. Think about the difference it would make if everyone was more aware of the personal cost to them of poverty, homelessness and so forth? In the current world, living in a place that doesn't do things the way the US does can accomplish this (at least temporarily).

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

First - let's think about who thinks like this primarily: Relatively wealthy people in suburban or rural areas (who are by no means actually wealthy by American standards). Poverty isn't going to affect their neighborhoods. You don't go from having a $750k house on the outskirts of a suburb of Atlanta or Dallas or a $500k house in Montgomery Al or Jackson MS to suddenly being overwhelmed with neighborhood poverty because Walmart comes in or a bunch of unions in town get busted. The affects will be felt in the suburban center where the lower middle class and poorer renters live. The crime that follows will almost exclusively be problems for OTHER people. If they have this thinking, they couldn't care less about crime in YOUR neighborhood. You can bet, for sure, if crime makes its way to THEIR neighborhood, they'll immediately get more police force - probably paid for primarily at YOUR expense.