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Note to anyone unafamiliar: There is a thriving "FPV" ecosystem of drones that can be DIYed. Example common setup, you can mix+match: - Small square PCB with

Note to anyone unafamiliar: There is a thriving "FPV" ecosystem of drones that can be DIYed. Example common setup, you can mix+match: - Small square PCB with the main flight control MCU (STM32), and some sensors - Smalls square PCB with motor drivers - Carbon fiber frame - Small PCB with a LoRa radio - Camera and video transmission system. (90s-security-cam style analog, or digital. - Brushless DC motors, props etc Uses Betaflight, ArduPilot, iNav, or PX4 firmware. Or, you could write your own. The PCB-frame in the article is neat and has obvious convenience advantages, but I speculate that it would not be stiff enough for desirable controllable characteristics under high accel situations.

hylaride 2y ago
And a lot of it is all open source! ESC software: - https://github.com/am32-firmware https://github.com/am32-firmware - https://github.com/mathiasvr/bluejay https://github.com/mathiasvr/bluejay Flight controller (you mentioned these): - https://github.com/betaflight https://github.com/betaflight - https://github.com/ArduPilot https://github.com/ArduPilot - https://github.com/iNavFlight https://github.com/iNavFlight Control link: - https://github.com/ExpressLRS https://github.com/ExpressLRS (also uses ESP32/ESP82 chips) Radio Controllers: - https://github.com/EdgeTX https://github.com/EdgeTX 5+ years ago the vast majority of this stuff was proprietary-only and getting into the hobby cost thousands of dollars. Now you could start at ~$500 (big price factor for FPV is the goggles, but cheap analog ones can be had for ~$100).
- nullstyle 2y ago
  With luck the OpenIPC cameras that are starting to come on the market will find traction and the entire hardware stack will run on open source firmware. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdjI3ZQsmCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdjI3ZQsmCA
  - the__alchemist 2y ago
    This is so cool; LFTI!
  - stavros 2y ago
    That'll be really nice, but I'm worried that DJI has a stranglehold on the camera market. Their stuff just works, gives you video over 20+ km without any tuning, and looks amazing. Open hardware has a long way to go to do that, but let's hope they pull off an ELRS.
  - af78 2y ago
    Unfortunately these kernels look very old: - https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t31 https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t31: v3.10.14 - https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t40 https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t40: v4.4.94 etc. That's the problem with vendors forking the kernel: downstream users are often left with unmaintained branches that will accumulate CVEs over time...
- nostrademons 2y ago
  You can start for ~$400 - I just bought parts for 2 drones for my kids. My shopping list: - Flywoo Goku F405 HD 1-2S 12A ELRS AIO V2 flight controller, $64, flywoo.net - Radiomaster Pocket radio controller, $65, radiomasterrc.com - EAchine EV800D VR goggles, $109.81, banggood.com - Meteor 75 frame, $5, tinywhoop.com - 4x 40mm props, $2.25, tinywhoop.com - BetaFPV canopy, $5, tinywhoop.com - TinyWhoop Pinch Premium FPV camera, $20, tinywhoop.com - 4x 702 26,000kV brushless motors, $40, tinywhoop.com - 4x BetaFPV BT2.0 550mAH lipo battery, $31, amazon.com - BetaFPV 1S lipo charger board, $28, amazon.com Haven't fully soldered it together yet so I hope I'm not forgetting something important, but all the parts have arrived, and I've successfully rough-fitted everything together. The Flywoo Goku board supposedly runs both Betaflight or ArduPilot on a whoop form factor. Note also that the biggest expense are one-time items that can be reused across multiple drones: the radio controller, FPV goggles, and battery charger are $200 together. The BOM for a single drone is about $150 these days, so if you're say putting together multiple ones for multiple family members, it's pretty cheap.
  - stavros 2y ago
    I don't see the ESCs, are they in the AIO?
    - tubs 2y ago
      They quote 12A in the name so I’d guess it includes the ESC.
      - stavros 2y ago
        Oh it's for a whoop, the cost threw me off. I guess it includes the controller and goggles, but still, a whoop should be around $50.
    - nostrademons 2y ago
      Yeah the ESCs are on the flight controller board.
  - 83 2y ago
Kadin 2y ago
This is all true, but just to set expectations: the open source ecosystem seems to be lagging the proprietary world pretty significantly, unless there's some corner where development is really chugging along that's not making it out to the rest of the hobbyist market. Though there have been incremental improvements in flight control software, and video subsystems have moved (mostly) from analog to 2.4/5.8 GHz and digital, the overall architecture is pretty similar to what it was 5+ years ago. You have a hobby R/C transmitter and receiver driving PWM outputs (through the flight controller, typically an STM32) to hobby-type ESCs which control the motors. The ESCs are microcontroller-driven and can be reflashed, but painstakingly and annoyingly. Telemetry is typically separate from control, which is separate from video. Everything is very short-range and non-IP. In comparison, a COTS quadcopter from DJI has a single backhaul from the airframe to the controller which does control, video, and and telemetry. And the video is impressively low-latency. (I'm pretty sure they use a WiFi-type chipset and just spew raw vendor frames, and the receiver picks up what it can, best effort. You could do this with an ESP32 in ESP-NOW mode, I suspect?) I've seen some efforts to reverse-engineer the DJI protocol but I'm not aware of a fully compatible implementation or equivalent in the OSS world. And at the upper end of the commercial/proprietary space you have systems with out-of-the-box autonomy, multiple backhauls over IP -- so they can use LOS/BLOS radio, LTE, SATCOM, whatever you want -- integration with navigation beacon systems to reduce GPS dependence, hybrid motor/generators, redundant power systems, the whole shebang. There's no real reason aside from developer interest that this situation exists, as far as I can see. The components are mostly all available. A Raspberry Pi running a decent RTOS would have orders of magnitude more processing capacity than an STM32 and could easily do the sort of multi-sensor fusion that the commercial systems do. LTE modems are cheap. A bigger hexacopter or fixed-wing could easily loft one of the small Starlink dishes, if someone wanted to. Stuff like "perching" (landing and recharging from solar panels) is entirely possible. But from what I can tell, the cutting edge of open source drones is happening behind closed doors in Ukraine and Iran. Happy to be corrected if there's new stuff that I'm not tracking, but the gap between the "art of the possible" and current practice seems large. Lots of opportunity though, is the other way to view it.
- the__alchemist 2y ago
  That is consistent with my experience. My highlights: - Current betaflight devevelopers and leaders are incompetent (They inherited the code base from others), and are slow, and varying degrees of willing, to add higher-level flight-control mechanics (semi-autonomous modes etc). - The Ardupilot and PX4 configuration systems, and general experience, are user-hostile. Note that the converses of these hold: Betaflight has a reasonably-good user experience, and Ardupilot and PX4 have extensive higher-level flight control mechanics. If only you could get the pros of both together! Regarding hardware, frames generally accommodate flight controllers and ESCs elegantly, but other hardware like cameras, radios, and especially batteries, feel clumsy to assemble in a safe and consistent way.
helpfulContrib 2y ago
> There is a thriving "FPV" ecosystem of drones that can be DIYed. As someone who has for decades built flying things which could be drone'ified any day of the week, it is sort of also necessary to point out that even before drones became so widespread and commonplace, rcgroups.com has been the ecosystem in which to find oneself. And indeed, the "model airplane/remote control flight" subject has been prosperous and flourishing as a hobby for decades too .. just feast yourself on the categories here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php A very earnest exploration of the various sub-forums will reveal some extraordinary designs - some which, indeed, break the 'norm' for what a flying thing should look like, in respect to a more casual view. Magnus, aerostat, Fettler are pretty good search terms...
dheera 2y ago
Also > All-in-one PCB: Doesn’t need any 3D printed parts or such I actually am fine 3D printing and laser cutting stuff at home but I don't have the stuff to make a PCB and don't have the hand skills to do anything more than through-hole soldering.
- the__alchemist 2y ago
  The intent is not at-home fabrication: It's sending it to a company in Shenzhen (e.g. JLCPCB) to do both PCB fab, and SMT assembly for you. 10-day time between order and arrival. (USA), and astonishingly low cost. PCB are sometimes used in these structural scenarios, (Where they are not the right tool for the job) as they're one of few(?) ways to get a custom part fabricated at low cost. If the device has electronics anyway, the added cost of expanding the PCB footprint for structure, as in this case, is small.
  - dheera 2y ago
    > JLCPCB Minimum order of 5, as is the case for many similar factories. Great for startups, sucks for hobbyists.
hypercube33 2y ago
What about those of us who really are awful at flying drones? I personally have tried fpv ones and just don't seem to have the skills for it - however I really enjoy my DJI mini. I never can seem to find information on open drones that fly the same way (maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at or for?)

hylaride 2y ago

And a lot of it is all open source! ESC software: - https://github.com/am32-firmware https://github.com/am32-firmware - https://github.com/mathiasvr/bluejay https://github.com/mathiasvr/bluejay Flight controller (you mentioned these): - https://github.com/betaflight https://github.com/betaflight - https://github.com/ArduPilot https://github.com/ArduPilot - https://github.com/iNavFlight https://github.com/iNavFlight Control link: - https://github.com/ExpressLRS https://github.com/ExpressLRS (also uses ESP32/ESP82 chips) Radio Controllers: - https://github.com/EdgeTX https://github.com/EdgeTX 5+ years ago the vast majority of this stuff was proprietary-only and getting into the hobby cost thousands of dollars. Now you could start at ~$500 (big price factor for FPV is the goggles, but cheap analog ones can be had for ~$100).

nullstyle 2y ago
With luck the OpenIPC cameras that are starting to come on the market will find traction and the entire hardware stack will run on open source firmware. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdjI3ZQsmCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdjI3ZQsmCA
- the__alchemist 2y ago
  This is so cool; LFTI!
- stavros 2y ago
  That'll be really nice, but I'm worried that DJI has a stranglehold on the camera market. Their stuff just works, gives you video over 20+ km without any tuning, and looks amazing. Open hardware has a long way to go to do that, but let's hope they pull off an ELRS.
- af78 2y ago
  Unfortunately these kernels look very old: - https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t31 https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t31: v3.10.14 - https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t40 https://github.com/OpenIPC/linux/tree/ingenic-t40: v4.4.94 etc. That's the problem with vendors forking the kernel: downstream users are often left with unmaintained branches that will accumulate CVEs over time...
nostrademons 2y ago
You can start for ~$400 - I just bought parts for 2 drones for my kids. My shopping list: - Flywoo Goku F405 HD 1-2S 12A ELRS AIO V2 flight controller, $64, flywoo.net - Radiomaster Pocket radio controller, $65, radiomasterrc.com - EAchine EV800D VR goggles, $109.81, banggood.com - Meteor 75 frame, $5, tinywhoop.com - 4x 40mm props, $2.25, tinywhoop.com - BetaFPV canopy, $5, tinywhoop.com - TinyWhoop Pinch Premium FPV camera, $20, tinywhoop.com - 4x 702 26,000kV brushless motors, $40, tinywhoop.com - 4x BetaFPV BT2.0 550mAH lipo battery, $31, amazon.com - BetaFPV 1S lipo charger board, $28, amazon.com Haven't fully soldered it together yet so I hope I'm not forgetting something important, but all the parts have arrived, and I've successfully rough-fitted everything together. The Flywoo Goku board supposedly runs both Betaflight or ArduPilot on a whoop form factor. Note also that the biggest expense are one-time items that can be reused across multiple drones: the radio controller, FPV goggles, and battery charger are $200 together. The BOM for a single drone is about $150 these days, so if you're say putting together multiple ones for multiple family members, it's pretty cheap.
- stavros 2y ago
  I don't see the ESCs, are they in the AIO?
  - tubs 2y ago
    They quote 12A in the name so I’d guess it includes the ESC.
    - stavros 2y ago
      Oh it's for a whoop, the cost threw me off. I guess it includes the controller and goggles, but still, a whoop should be around $50.
  - nostrademons 2y ago
    Yeah the ESCs are on the flight controller board.
- 83 2y ago

Kadin 2y ago

This is all true, but just to set expectations: the open source ecosystem seems to be lagging the proprietary world pretty significantly, unless there's some corner where development is really chugging along that's not making it out to the rest of the hobbyist market. Though there have been incremental improvements in flight control software, and video subsystems have moved (mostly) from analog to 2.4/5.8 GHz and digital, the overall architecture is pretty similar to what it was 5+ years ago. You have a hobby R/C transmitter and receiver driving PWM outputs (through the flight controller, typically an STM32) to hobby-type ESCs which control the motors. The ESCs are microcontroller-driven and can be reflashed, but painstakingly and annoyingly. Telemetry is typically separate from control, which is separate from video. Everything is very short-range and non-IP. In comparison, a COTS quadcopter from DJI has a single backhaul from the airframe to the controller which does control, video, and and telemetry. And the video is impressively low-latency. (I'm pretty sure they use a WiFi-type chipset and just spew raw vendor frames, and the receiver picks up what it can, best effort. You could do this with an ESP32 in ESP-NOW mode, I suspect?) I've seen some efforts to reverse-engineer the DJI protocol but I'm not aware of a fully compatible implementation or equivalent in the OSS world. And at the upper end of the commercial/proprietary space you have systems with out-of-the-box autonomy, multiple backhauls over IP -- so they can use LOS/BLOS radio, LTE, SATCOM, whatever you want -- integration with navigation beacon systems to reduce GPS dependence, hybrid motor/generators, redundant power systems, the whole shebang. There's no real reason aside from developer interest that this situation exists, as far as I can see. The components are mostly all available. A Raspberry Pi running a decent RTOS would have orders of magnitude more processing capacity than an STM32 and could easily do the sort of multi-sensor fusion that the commercial systems do. LTE modems are cheap. A bigger hexacopter or fixed-wing could easily loft one of the small Starlink dishes, if someone wanted to. Stuff like "perching" (landing and recharging from solar panels) is entirely possible. But from what I can tell, the cutting edge of open source drones is happening behind closed doors in Ukraine and Iran. Happy to be corrected if there's new stuff that I'm not tracking, but the gap between the "art of the possible" and current practice seems large. Lots of opportunity though, is the other way to view it.

the__alchemist 2y ago
That is consistent with my experience. My highlights: - Current betaflight devevelopers and leaders are incompetent (They inherited the code base from others), and are slow, and varying degrees of willing, to add higher-level flight-control mechanics (semi-autonomous modes etc). - The Ardupilot and PX4 configuration systems, and general experience, are user-hostile. Note that the converses of these hold: Betaflight has a reasonably-good user experience, and Ardupilot and PX4 have extensive higher-level flight control mechanics. If only you could get the pros of both together! Regarding hardware, frames generally accommodate flight controllers and ESCs elegantly, but other hardware like cameras, radios, and especially batteries, feel clumsy to assemble in a safe and consistent way.

helpfulContrib 2y ago

> There is a thriving "FPV" ecosystem of drones that can be DIYed. As someone who has for decades built flying things which could be drone'ified any day of the week, it is sort of also necessary to point out that even before drones became so widespread and commonplace, rcgroups.com has been the ecosystem in which to find oneself. And indeed, the "model airplane/remote control flight" subject has been prosperous and flourishing as a hobby for decades too .. just feast yourself on the categories here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php A very earnest exploration of the various sub-forums will reveal some extraordinary designs - some which, indeed, break the 'norm' for what a flying thing should look like, in respect to a more casual view. Magnus, aerostat, Fettler are pretty good search terms...

dheera 2y ago

Also > All-in-one PCB: Doesn’t need any 3D printed parts or such I actually am fine 3D printing and laser cutting stuff at home but I don't have the stuff to make a PCB and don't have the hand skills to do anything more than through-hole soldering.

the__alchemist 2y ago
The intent is not at-home fabrication: It's sending it to a company in Shenzhen (e.g. JLCPCB) to do both PCB fab, and SMT assembly for you. 10-day time between order and arrival. (USA), and astonishingly low cost. PCB are sometimes used in these structural scenarios, (Where they are not the right tool for the job) as they're one of few(?) ways to get a custom part fabricated at low cost. If the device has electronics anyway, the added cost of expanding the PCB footprint for structure, as in this case, is small.
- dheera 2y ago
  > JLCPCB Minimum order of 5, as is the case for many similar factories. Great for startups, sucks for hobbyists.

hypercube33 2y ago

What about those of us who really are awful at flying drones? I personally have tried fpv ones and just don't seem to have the skills for it - however I really enjoy my DJI mini. I never can seem to find information on open drones that fly the same way (maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at or for?)