5 ms·

I can totally understand an animal associating some of the sounds that it has heard in its lifetime, perhaps even a "name" for itself. There may also be possibi

by firtoz 2y ago

I can totally understand an animal associating some of the sounds that it has heard in its lifetime, perhaps even a "name" for itself. There may also be possibilities for some animal populations e.g. crows if enough generations have passed with common sounds, to mean different things, especially when those things were encountered enough times during the lifetimes of them. So that could build to some kind of "for the birds of this region, this sound/combination may represent something specific". Same for dogs and so on. There may also be some kind of more subtle genetics/morphology based distinctions, beyond the obvious "snarl for most dogs means afraid, angry, aggressive, possessive, or in pain"... But... it seems that the collapse of tower of babel happens very frequently for non-humans, so unsure how "useful" an AI training may be for the majority of the cases.

ripped_britches 2y ago
So your comment is just “I don’t know how useful this new science will be”? What separates any science from corporate R&D is basically that exact statement. I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn more about ourselves from this research, not to mention the animals it covers.
- firtoz 2y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for it, just trying to understand or predict the extents... Also I'm a layman in this field, so who knows!
  - dumpsterdiver 2y ago
    I imagine this line of research would be of interest to intelligence agencies. Especially when you start taking a multi-modal approach that incorporates sensors such as heart rate, perspiration, etc, then we're basically talking about pre-Judgment Day Terminators.
vasco 2y ago
They are more sophisticated in their communication than you are portraying. > "Perhaps" even a name for itself No perhaps needed, dogs will respond to a name and know it refers to them. You might be interested in reading this study about dogs doing fMRI while responding to new and old words: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2018.00737/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/1...
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  we have, besides a dog, cats, and they all know their individual names very clearly, repeatably, demonstrably. they also seem to know the names of one another, but of course cooperation is more eager in dogs than in cats, so harder to demonstrate that.
bongodongobob 2y ago
My dog knows all the neighbor dogs names, and their owner's names. He's a smart breed but I feel like you're really underestimating animal cognition.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
in my opinion, derived from just sitting in the woods being observant of the bird song, I don't think any individual bird has much to say (besides the requisite 'somebody screw me' and 'get the fuck away') but there is a lot of nuance'd information being transmitted in aggregate. How long its been since there was a predator, how soon is the next rain, are we in agreement that just about all the food is gone here (quorum sensing / collective decision making). Crows and other corvids of course are another level of sophistication. When they're gathering in trees (like when instead of leaves a tree has crows, that kind of gathering) somebody told me that there's elections going on, which individuals will be given decision making power are being chosen through bickering and persuasion. As for dogs (and a brief google doesn't recall my source so take it with a grain of salt, but,) I'll add that they're the only animal besides humans that have been observed making pacts, promises, "if you go I'll go" style. IANA-consensus-in-animal-populations however, and body language goes a long way in signaling submission, agreeableness, resistance, doubt etc.
- esperent 2y ago
  It's a fair bet that anything intellectual that a dog can do, many other animals can do, too. If it appears that it's only dogs, that's almost certainly just because we get to observe them so much more than other creatures. https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2023-09-13/pacts-among-primates-how-and-why-do-they-make-them.html https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2023-09-13/pacts-amo...
noFaceDiscoG668 2y ago
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by firtoz 2y ago

ripped_britches 2y ago

So your comment is just “I don’t know how useful this new science will be”? What separates any science from corporate R&D is basically that exact statement. I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn more about ourselves from this research, not to mention the animals it covers.

firtoz 2y ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for it, just trying to understand or predict the extents... Also I'm a layman in this field, so who knows!
- dumpsterdiver 2y ago
  I imagine this line of research would be of interest to intelligence agencies. Especially when you start taking a multi-modal approach that incorporates sensors such as heart rate, perspiration, etc, then we're basically talking about pre-Judgment Day Terminators.

vasco 2y ago

They are more sophisticated in their communication than you are portraying. > "Perhaps" even a name for itself No perhaps needed, dogs will respond to a name and know it refers to them. You might be interested in reading this study about dogs doing fMRI while responding to new and old words: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2018.00737/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/1...

jjtheblunt 2y ago
we have, besides a dog, cats, and they all know their individual names very clearly, repeatably, demonstrably. they also seem to know the names of one another, but of course cooperation is more eager in dogs than in cats, so harder to demonstrate that.

bongodongobob 2y ago

My dog knows all the neighbor dogs names, and their owner's names. He's a smart breed but I feel like you're really underestimating animal cognition.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

in my opinion, derived from just sitting in the woods being observant of the bird song, I don't think any individual bird has much to say (besides the requisite 'somebody screw me' and 'get the fuck away') but there is a lot of nuance'd information being transmitted in aggregate. How long its been since there was a predator, how soon is the next rain, are we in agreement that just about all the food is gone here (quorum sensing / collective decision making). Crows and other corvids of course are another level of sophistication. When they're gathering in trees (like when instead of leaves a tree has crows, that kind of gathering) somebody told me that there's elections going on, which individuals will be given decision making power are being chosen through bickering and persuasion. As for dogs (and a brief google doesn't recall my source so take it with a grain of salt, but,) I'll add that they're the only animal besides humans that have been observed making pacts, promises, "if you go I'll go" style. IANA-consensus-in-animal-populations however, and body language goes a long way in signaling submission, agreeableness, resistance, doubt etc.

esperent 2y ago
It's a fair bet that anything intellectual that a dog can do, many other animals can do, too. If it appears that it's only dogs, that's almost certainly just because we get to observe them so much more than other creatures. https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2023-09-13/pacts-among-primates-how-and-why-do-they-make-them.html https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2023-09-13/pacts-amo...

noFaceDiscoG668 2y ago

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