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I'd argue that keeping Linux updated is at least as much of a nuisance. Who is keeping a Linux machine updated without regular restarts? I've never heard of th

by ufmace 2y ago

I'd argue that keeping Linux updated is at least as much of a nuisance. Who is keeping a Linux machine updated without regular restarts? I've never heard of that. Yeah, many applications on Windows update themselves. I've never seen one restart without warning, though I also don't use the windows "app store". Meanwhile, on Linux, you often do have a package manager with packages available for a bunch of third-party software. Except the version is often years out of date. If you'd like a more recent version, the instructions for that (on the project website) are usually either to run a bunch of CLI commands to install and approve keys for another external package source, or pipe a command from a website into a root shell. And then sometimes you end up with 20 of those extra package sources. And one randomly breaks, and you have to do a bunch of debugging to figure out why and fix it. And then some package may either fail to initially install, or an update fail to install, due to some bug or config error, and you're stuck until you can figure out why.

rbanffy 2y ago
> Who is keeping a Linux machine updated without regular restarts? I've never heard of that. You only need to restart when the kernel has a security update, and you can do it at your own convenience. Same happens with some fundamental components (such and Gnome session manager). My Fedora box usually has a 30 day-ish uptime. The Ubuntu laptop a little less because of its usage pattern, but it signals when a restart would be a good idea, and leaves the decision to me. When it’s time, shutting down and restarting is just a couple seconds. Fedora is more cautious and does updates on startup or shutdown, and never automatically. A distro is a curated work. All the bits and pieces are known to work well together. The price is that you might get behind the latest and greatest from time to time. If you are using 20 PPAs or package sources with varying levels of testing, you shouldn’t blame the distro for your self-inflicted wounds. Unless you actually know very well what you’re doing, use the packaged versions. I actually know what I’m doing and I use the packaged versions, because I’m paid to work, not to debug my setup. > And then some package may either fail to initially install I had experiences like that with Debian Sid. As is well known to anyone familiar with the Toy Story universe, Sid breaks your toys. I’ve never seen anything like that with Debian testing, Ubuntu, RHEL/Centos/Fedora in the past 20 years or so. But I never actively tried to break the package system by having 20 different sources for stuff.

by ufmace 2y ago

rbanffy 2y ago

> Who is keeping a Linux machine updated without regular restarts? I've never heard of that. You only need to restart when the kernel has a security update, and you can do it at your own convenience. Same happens with some fundamental components (such and Gnome session manager). My Fedora box usually has a 30 day-ish uptime. The Ubuntu laptop a little less because of its usage pattern, but it signals when a restart would be a good idea, and leaves the decision to me. When it’s time, shutting down and restarting is just a couple seconds. Fedora is more cautious and does updates on startup or shutdown, and never automatically. A distro is a curated work. All the bits and pieces are known to work well together. The price is that you might get behind the latest and greatest from time to time. If you are using 20 PPAs or package sources with varying levels of testing, you shouldn’t blame the distro for your self-inflicted wounds. Unless you actually know very well what you’re doing, use the packaged versions. I actually know what I’m doing and I use the packaged versions, because I’m paid to work, not to debug my setup. > And then some package may either fail to initially install I had experiences like that with Debian Sid. As is well known to anyone familiar with the Toy Story universe, Sid breaks your toys. I’ve never seen anything like that with Debian testing, Ubuntu, RHEL/Centos/Fedora in the past 20 years or so. But I never actively tried to break the package system by having 20 different sources for stuff.