5 ms·

I don't know why folks think Windows is easier to maintain than Linux. Sure, if you're running Gentoo maybe, but Bluefin is the most hands-off and stable operat

by pkulak 2y ago

I don't know why folks think Windows is easier to maintain than Linux. Sure, if you're running Gentoo maybe, but Bluefin is the most hands-off and stable operating system I've ever encountered; and I've used ChromeOS. I've never seen a Windows install over a year old that didn't have ad popups, corrupted drivers, 100 apps starting and running in the background at startup, or was just slow as all hell. Every one of these posts boils down to "I wanted to play Fortnite, now I can, that makes me happy." Sure, you've now given some random company access to your machine at the kernel level, but if you wanted to make that tradeoff, good for you. It's not a terribly interesting take though.

mardef 2y ago
Everytime I read someone saying Linux is so easy, they name yet another distro I haven't heard of yet. I'm squarely in the "use what works for you camp", but it seems like people forget their learning curve for what they are now used to. My last foray into Linux included browsers that couldn't play videos, audio codec issues, and tons of other things that weren't worth the effort. I bet that's not the case for most, but that was my experience. My windows systems have been running for years, with multiple hardware upgrades, and I have none of the issues you mention. Maybe it's because I don't play Fortnite? I have seen trashed Windows, Linux, and Mac computers over the last few decades. It tends to depend on the user much more than the OS, and you're obviously going to find more windows users than any other desktop system.
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  Ubuntu is mainstream and nearly flawless these days in modern (but not bleeding edge) equipment. Veterans don't mention it because it has snaps, but regular users couldn't care less, they just want something they can use for their daily needs. No need to name niche distros.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    I've been using Ubuntu and Fedora and I LOVE the simple and straightforward Gnome shell I have on both. It's useful out of the box and that's perfect for me. It's very Mac like in its way to promote a sane default rather than endless configurations. I don't want to waste time changing the screen background.
  - DaSHacka 2y ago
    > Veterans don't mention it because it has snaps, but regular users couldn't care less, they just want something they can use for their daily needs. No need to name niche distros. The problem with snaps is they can cause unpredictable issues for a newcomer not expecting it. It's espeically egregious when they force apt to pull in snaps, as it adds yet another layer of complexity no one asked for. I started with Mint in Highschool and it served me well as a previous Windows user. It's quite literally Ubuntu, without snaps, and with a Windows-like UI out of the box (Cinnamon). Not sure if it counts as "no-name" to you or the average beginner, though it's really starting to take the place Ubuntu used to have among beginners.
    - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
      There isn’t a Linux end-user-oriented distribution/container/sandbox solution I’ve run across that doesn’t come with some set of complications. I’m not convinced that sandboxing being external to the OS itself is a viable solution, there’s just too many things that can go wrong with integration points and the like for it to work well for non-technical users. Feels like macOS got this more right by shipping “dumb” all-inclusive .app packages that the OS then handles things like permissions and sandboxing on. For my personal usage if there’s a .deb/.rpm/etc option for a program I install that instead of the flatpak or whatever. It almost universally works better.
      - DaSHacka 2y ago
        I agree; I always try to install a program through the distribution's page manager first and foremost—including AUR/GURU methods if available—over flatpak/snap. I'm more okay with appimages; At least they don't require a framework to be installed on my end. I treat them akin to Windows programs with a "portable .exe" option.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    Man, have you actually used the snaps? I don't know how a regular user would stand it. If you just have Firefox and Discord installed as snaps, it's a never ending popup annoyance mess. I can't imagine having more Snaps installed than that. You're told at least twice a day to close Firefox, and then you get told again to close Discord because there's an update for that. Then it says "Fuck you" and updates in the background, even though I didn't want it to, causing the currently running version to crash. Never mind that I was in the middle of something. Oh yeah and it's awesome how your dock icon just quits working half the time after an update, and I get to re-pin it. Not to mention, they start up slow as shit. I hate Windows with a passion, but snap makes Windows Update seem like a great system.
    - ASalazarMX 2y ago
      Ubuntu user since 2006 IIRC. Snaps are not such a big deal. Sure, they're slow to start, consume more resources, they're annoying with updates, and you gotta backup their private snap directory or they will lose your data. I've used Flatpak, containers, the Windows Store, etc., all have warts too. Still, a regular user running Ubuntu LTS and regular backups will make snaps a non issue, because all OSes have similar annoyances and users learn to work with, or around, them. Linux is exceptional in the sense that nearly all distros aim to give users more freedom to use their computers, not to corral them into a walled garden to milk them. It won't meet everyone's use cases, but it doesn't force you to choose: you can always use several OSes. It's not marriage.
    - 28304283409234 2y ago
      Just merely having the `snapd` running was pushing my machines into high cpu load. No snaps actually installed, only snapd. It is a pox.
  - kyriakos 2y ago
    That bleeding edge point burned me many times. My most recent lenovo legion refused to work with any distro I tried. I'm no Linux guru but comfortable with Linux and just couldn't get the gpu to work.
subjectsigma 2y ago
This person just wrote like 1,000 words describing all the activities that they think are easier to do on Windows versus Linux and the first sentence of your comment is “I don't know why folks think Windows is easier to maintain than Linux.” Like, is there some alternative format you need it explained to you in? > Every one of these posts boils down to "I wanted to play Fortnite, now I can, that makes me happy." Dude, what? Like ok, just imagine for a second, take something you do every day, maybe reading HN, and pretend that this just simply stopped working on Linux. How would that make you feel? Frustrated? Annoyed? Maybe you would, I don’t know, look for alternative software which would enable you to do the things you want to do?
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  I think the parent comment is right, no matter how many words the poster used to describe his problems. This is a key take: > I was pretty hardcore with Linux. I’ve gone through countless distributions, preaching Linux as the good news to everyone. This guy complains that Windows is easier after self-inflicting unwanted experimentation instead of staying with something stable that works, and ironing whatever quirks are left. Experimentation was not aligned with his needs. Furthermore, it was gaming indeed. It's always gaming.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  > This person just wrote like 1,000 words describing all the activities that they think are easier to do on Windows Keeping a Windows machine updated is a nuisance. You can do it manually or leave Windows to do it by itself. It's less of a nuisance than it used to be, but, still, you'll find the machine rebooting for no good reason from time to time because updates can't be applied while running, because the file system can't rename/delete/move a file that's open. Programs downloaded from the app store (the "package manager") will, sometimes, restart without warning, for the very same reasons. Installing software that's not in the app store involves chasing down the company's website, navigating it, finding the appropriate executable, and running it. Sometimes it is not happy with the power to overwrite and erase all your files, it also wants to be able to do that with all files on the machine, and asks for administrative permissions, which, usually people grant them. Then you are happy until your flow state is interrupted by the program asking to download an update, because each program manages its own updates, and can't install updates while the program is running, because the toy file system it uses can't do anything with open files. And all the DLLs the program uses are open. If you are happy with all that, there is gaming, which is a nice thing Windows has that Linux isn't great at. I brought a console. It's simpler and more convenient. Also makes sense - my computer is my workstation and the console is my PlayStation. Even though it's not a PlayStation.
cosmic_cheese 2y ago
It very much depends on one’s hardware, needs, and expectations. Having the “wrong” hardware alone can significantly degrade your experience, as can distribution choice, with some not including the drivers (usually Nvidia) and/or configurations (e.g. h.264 hardware acceleration in browsers) required for a good experience. Same goes for laptop battery life, with some distro/laptop combinations being reasonably ok out of the box and others being a disaster. From the perspective of things mostly working as expected regardless of the user’s machine, skill level, etc, Windows unfortunately still has a leg up. Windows can’t compete at all on the grounds of annoyances like ads, but for many if not most users that’s secondary to the OS running reasonably smoothly and being able to do what they need it to with minimal fuss.
Amezarak 2y ago
I always find it bizarre how different people's experiences are. > I've never seen a Windows install over a year old that didn't have ad popups, corrupted drivers, 100 apps starting and running in the background at startup, or was just slow as all hell. I've never had any of these problems, the sample being Windows 98SE, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1/10. I've never once had to reinstall Windows. As far as I know, things like this happen because people install random binaries suggested by ads, not because of anything to do with Windows, and stopping that is a large reason why we have the locked-down ecosystem we have today. I do think Windows has gotten worse over time, but I've never found Windows to require any "maintenance" since the days of defragging disks.
dandanua 2y ago
Agree, many non-technical people I know have a horrible Windows performance after a short use and cry for help (or try to buy a more powerful PC). This is not entirely Microsoft's fault, but the system enables all of the invasive behavior of programs installed, including browser notifications and addons, which causes all the problems. Many also install anti-virus software, which makes things even worse. Funnily, when I myself tried to install Windows recently I immediately bumped into issues. 1. You can't install it without internet connection (by default). I don't have RJ45 port on a laptop and at the same time Windows couldn't get Wi-Fi card to work and connect to a Wi-Fi network in the install phase. Dead end for a casual user. 2. I wanted to use external GPU, but Windows could not make it work automatically even with correct graphics drivers installed. Had to search the internet and find a fixing .bat script that solved the problem.

by pkulak 2y ago

mardef 2y ago

Everytime I read someone saying Linux is so easy, they name yet another distro I haven't heard of yet. I'm squarely in the "use what works for you camp", but it seems like people forget their learning curve for what they are now used to. My last foray into Linux included browsers that couldn't play videos, audio codec issues, and tons of other things that weren't worth the effort. I bet that's not the case for most, but that was my experience. My windows systems have been running for years, with multiple hardware upgrades, and I have none of the issues you mention. Maybe it's because I don't play Fortnite? I have seen trashed Windows, Linux, and Mac computers over the last few decades. It tends to depend on the user much more than the OS, and you're obviously going to find more windows users than any other desktop system.

ASalazarMX 2y ago
Ubuntu is mainstream and nearly flawless these days in modern (but not bleeding edge) equipment. Veterans don't mention it because it has snaps, but regular users couldn't care less, they just want something they can use for their daily needs. No need to name niche distros.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  I've been using Ubuntu and Fedora and I LOVE the simple and straightforward Gnome shell I have on both. It's useful out of the box and that's perfect for me. It's very Mac like in its way to promote a sane default rather than endless configurations. I don't want to waste time changing the screen background.
- DaSHacka 2y ago
  > Veterans don't mention it because it has snaps, but regular users couldn't care less, they just want something they can use for their daily needs. No need to name niche distros. The problem with snaps is they can cause unpredictable issues for a newcomer not expecting it. It's espeically egregious when they force apt to pull in snaps, as it adds yet another layer of complexity no one asked for. I started with Mint in Highschool and it served me well as a previous Windows user. It's quite literally Ubuntu, without snaps, and with a Windows-like UI out of the box (Cinnamon). Not sure if it counts as "no-name" to you or the average beginner, though it's really starting to take the place Ubuntu used to have among beginners.
  - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
    There isn’t a Linux end-user-oriented distribution/container/sandbox solution I’ve run across that doesn’t come with some set of complications. I’m not convinced that sandboxing being external to the OS itself is a viable solution, there’s just too many things that can go wrong with integration points and the like for it to work well for non-technical users. Feels like macOS got this more right by shipping “dumb” all-inclusive .app packages that the OS then handles things like permissions and sandboxing on. For my personal usage if there’s a .deb/.rpm/etc option for a program I install that instead of the flatpak or whatever. It almost universally works better.
    - DaSHacka 2y ago
      I agree; I always try to install a program through the distribution's page manager first and foremost—including AUR/GURU methods if available—over flatpak/snap. I'm more okay with appimages; At least they don't require a framework to be installed on my end. I treat them akin to Windows programs with a "portable .exe" option.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Man, have you actually used the snaps? I don't know how a regular user would stand it. If you just have Firefox and Discord installed as snaps, it's a never ending popup annoyance mess. I can't imagine having more Snaps installed than that. You're told at least twice a day to close Firefox, and then you get told again to close Discord because there's an update for that. Then it says "Fuck you" and updates in the background, even though I didn't want it to, causing the currently running version to crash. Never mind that I was in the middle of something. Oh yeah and it's awesome how your dock icon just quits working half the time after an update, and I get to re-pin it. Not to mention, they start up slow as shit. I hate Windows with a passion, but snap makes Windows Update seem like a great system.
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    Ubuntu user since 2006 IIRC. Snaps are not such a big deal. Sure, they're slow to start, consume more resources, they're annoying with updates, and you gotta backup their private snap directory or they will lose your data. I've used Flatpak, containers, the Windows Store, etc., all have warts too. Still, a regular user running Ubuntu LTS and regular backups will make snaps a non issue, because all OSes have similar annoyances and users learn to work with, or around, them. Linux is exceptional in the sense that nearly all distros aim to give users more freedom to use their computers, not to corral them into a walled garden to milk them. It won't meet everyone's use cases, but it doesn't force you to choose: you can always use several OSes. It's not marriage.
  - 28304283409234 2y ago
    Just merely having the `snapd` running was pushing my machines into high cpu load. No snaps actually installed, only snapd. It is a pox.
- kyriakos 2y ago
  That bleeding edge point burned me many times. My most recent lenovo legion refused to work with any distro I tried. I'm no Linux guru but comfortable with Linux and just couldn't get the gpu to work.

subjectsigma 2y ago

This person just wrote like 1,000 words describing all the activities that they think are easier to do on Windows versus Linux and the first sentence of your comment is “I don't know why folks think Windows is easier to maintain than Linux.” Like, is there some alternative format you need it explained to you in? > Every one of these posts boils down to "I wanted to play Fortnite, now I can, that makes me happy." Dude, what? Like ok, just imagine for a second, take something you do every day, maybe reading HN, and pretend that this just simply stopped working on Linux. How would that make you feel? Frustrated? Annoyed? Maybe you would, I don’t know, look for alternative software which would enable you to do the things you want to do?

ASalazarMX 2y ago
I think the parent comment is right, no matter how many words the poster used to describe his problems. This is a key take: > I was pretty hardcore with Linux. I’ve gone through countless distributions, preaching Linux as the good news to everyone. This guy complains that Windows is easier after self-inflicting unwanted experimentation instead of staying with something stable that works, and ironing whatever quirks are left. Experimentation was not aligned with his needs. Furthermore, it was gaming indeed. It's always gaming.
rbanffy 2y ago
> This person just wrote like 1,000 words describing all the activities that they think are easier to do on Windows Keeping a Windows machine updated is a nuisance. You can do it manually or leave Windows to do it by itself. It's less of a nuisance than it used to be, but, still, you'll find the machine rebooting for no good reason from time to time because updates can't be applied while running, because the file system can't rename/delete/move a file that's open. Programs downloaded from the app store (the "package manager") will, sometimes, restart without warning, for the very same reasons. Installing software that's not in the app store involves chasing down the company's website, navigating it, finding the appropriate executable, and running it. Sometimes it is not happy with the power to overwrite and erase all your files, it also wants to be able to do that with all files on the machine, and asks for administrative permissions, which, usually people grant them. Then you are happy until your flow state is interrupted by the program asking to download an update, because each program manages its own updates, and can't install updates while the program is running, because the toy file system it uses can't do anything with open files. And all the DLLs the program uses are open. If you are happy with all that, there is gaming, which is a nice thing Windows has that Linux isn't great at. I brought a console. It's simpler and more convenient. Also makes sense - my computer is my workstation and the console is my PlayStation. Even though it's not a PlayStation.

cosmic_cheese 2y ago

It very much depends on one’s hardware, needs, and expectations. Having the “wrong” hardware alone can significantly degrade your experience, as can distribution choice, with some not including the drivers (usually Nvidia) and/or configurations (e.g. h.264 hardware acceleration in browsers) required for a good experience. Same goes for laptop battery life, with some distro/laptop combinations being reasonably ok out of the box and others being a disaster. From the perspective of things mostly working as expected regardless of the user’s machine, skill level, etc, Windows unfortunately still has a leg up. Windows can’t compete at all on the grounds of annoyances like ads, but for many if not most users that’s secondary to the OS running reasonably smoothly and being able to do what they need it to with minimal fuss.

Amezarak 2y ago

I always find it bizarre how different people's experiences are. > I've never seen a Windows install over a year old that didn't have ad popups, corrupted drivers, 100 apps starting and running in the background at startup, or was just slow as all hell. I've never had any of these problems, the sample being Windows 98SE, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1/10. I've never once had to reinstall Windows. As far as I know, things like this happen because people install random binaries suggested by ads, not because of anything to do with Windows, and stopping that is a large reason why we have the locked-down ecosystem we have today. I do think Windows has gotten worse over time, but I've never found Windows to require any "maintenance" since the days of defragging disks.

dandanua 2y ago

Agree, many non-technical people I know have a horrible Windows performance after a short use and cry for help (or try to buy a more powerful PC). This is not entirely Microsoft's fault, but the system enables all of the invasive behavior of programs installed, including browser notifications and addons, which causes all the problems. Many also install anti-virus software, which makes things even worse. Funnily, when I myself tried to install Windows recently I immediately bumped into issues. 1. You can't install it without internet connection (by default). I don't have RJ45 port on a laptop and at the same time Windows couldn't get Wi-Fi card to work and connect to a Wi-Fi network in the install phase. Dead end for a casual user. 2. I wanted to use external GPU, but Windows could not make it work automatically even with correct graphics drivers installed. Had to search the internet and find a fixing .bat script that solved the problem.