6 ms·

Lexmark was the supplier of Model M keyboards for a while, after IBM spun their printer & keyboard business off. Which they later spun off into Unicomp (pckeybo

by chiph 2y ago

Lexmark was the supplier of Model M keyboards for a while, after IBM spun their printer & keyboard business off. Which they later spun off into Unicomp (pckeyboard.com) who still manufacture them in the town of Lexington. If you've never used a Model M, they're beasts. Great mechanical feel (they have buckling spring technology). And they're heavy enough to not slide around on your desk.

onre 2y ago
I have the 122-key version and a ton of Emacs bindings to make the most out of the 24 function keys and the 12-key panel on the left. It is simply the best.
- bombcar 2y ago
  Someone started making them new: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-m...
kstrauser 2y ago
I bought a Unicomp Type M once to replace my IBM because it had USB, more keys, etc. It was Model M “Lite”: same key feel, same delightful clicky, but much lighter and more flexible. You could march into battle with an IBM Model M. I don’t think you could take on more than one local thug with the Unicomp version.
- jhickok 2y ago
  New keyboard testing metric just dropped over Christmas break.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    I mean, this is the keyboard people use to run through the dishwasher to clean it. You have to come up with more advanced criteria to really tease them apart. (I just realized that "flexible" above might be interpreted positively, like "applicable in more situations". No, I mean "flexible" as in "may not be satisfactorily used as a bridge over a pothole in case of emergency", which the original would be able to pull off and still be used to write a blog post about the experience afterward.)
    - wholinator2 2y ago
      Is that, is that true? A dishwasher? Was this a regular occurrence? Did they have to turn down the water heater before hand? Did they take the keys off or leave them on and how did they dry if so?
      - kstrauser 2y ago
        That is true. I don't think anyone routinely did that instead of using canned air or something like that, but it was absolutely on the table for more substantial messes. Spill a can of soda into your keyboard? Run that sucker through the washer. I have not personally done this, but google "ibm model m dishwasher" and you'll see lots of anecdotes.
      - a2tech 2y ago
        You can do it today. Don’t run the heated dry and put it in with the keys facing down. Run it and take it out and leave it upside down over night on a towel. Let the connector hand down as well. Should work perfectly in the morning.
      - michaelsshaw 2y ago
        Basically: no. The construction of the Model M disallows removing the backplate after the assembly is removed from the case. On the Model F, however, the backplate is not attached with plastic rivets, and had no rubber membrane that could trap liquids, so after the electronics were removed, it is feasible to wash it in a dishwasher. Inadvisable to say the least, if you want your PCB to remain non-warped.
      - chiph 2y ago
        I've done that a few times but not "regularly". Use the top rack, no soap, no heated dry, zip-tie a plastic bag over the connector. Afterwards let it sit on the counter face-down for a couple of days to air-dry. Comes out sparkly clean.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Most electronics are run through a 'dishwasher' as part of manufacturing. Hot water removes a lot of gunk that if left causes earay failure. chips are plastic, the board is fiberglass, the resisters are ceramic or plastic most capacters are ceramic, the conductors are metal - none of that cares about water once it dries. The only thing to worry about is impurities in the water since they can leave something conductable behind. Some capacters however cannon take water. Likewise I'm note sure if LCDs are sealed enough. be careful of what soap you use though, dishwasher soap is too harsh. Manufactures are using deionized water and if any soap it is specific to electronics. Your house water isn't pure enough to do this often but once ever few years and you will normally get away with it.
- saulpw 2y ago
  I was all excited for the TKL Unicomp keyboard they introduced a couple years ago. I bought one the second it went up for sale, and plugged it in right away when I got it. I had to ditch it after a few hours. It turns out that certain keypresses won't register if another key is pressed at the same time, and I type fast enough that it was losing keypresses regularly. I haven't had a keyboard with this problem since about 1985. An unconscionable design mistake which tarnishes the entire Unicomp brand for me.
  - KennyBlanken 2y ago
    Nearly all Model M keyboards have horrendous key rollover issues, supporting as little as 2-key rollover and only between certain sets of keys; within a set, the keyboard will only register one keypress or the keyboard will generate garbage keypresses. It sounds like Unicomp designed the newer keyboards to have better PCB designs, but had firmware issues with key rollover on the mini (is that yours?) and may have fixed it: https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/13o0jkr/raspberry_pi_controller_mini_m_only_supports_2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/13o0jkr/raspberry_p... The microcontroller they had been stuck on for ages became unavailable so they started producing models with Rpi2040's, which can run QMK. If you still have it kicking around, maybe it is one of the QMK supported keyboards or they've released a fixed firmware for it? Unfortunately the Model M and derivatives have long been eclipsed by the market. Better electronics/firmware, mechanical switches with choices in travel, force, noise level, and tactile feel... designs with lower profiles, different grid arrangement and almost every key count/layout imaginable...
    - saulpw 2y ago
      Interesting, thanks for the link. I'll investigate and see if I can get it working more better. But FWIW, I have multiple Model M classic keyboards (from 1992), and also other Unicomp full-size keyboards, and I've never had this issue with them. I also know the story that the market has "better" options than the Model M. Maybe it's just nostalgia but I've never found anything with the same feel as a buckling spring. The Model M just feels nice to me.
- bombcar 2y ago
  The real deal is the IBM model F 122 key one - which can be used to invade small countries. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-m...
MisterTea 2y ago
My 1986 M is still going strong. > If you've never used a Model M, they're beasts. I jokingly call it the preppers keyboard as it can double as a clubbing weapon when SHTF.
- ryao 2y ago
  That is only the older ones. The newer ones are mostly made out of plastic to save money.
  - MisterTea 2y ago
    It's amazing how they had a whole stamped metal frame in there to stiffen it up. Like what was the design criteria that made them think they needed all that steel? Violent cavemen users?
    - Wohlf 2y ago
      They may have expected typists coming over from typewriters to hammer on it for 8 hours a day, or to give them a similar feel to ease the transition and limit complaints.
      - justsomehnguy 2y ago
        This one. You could hear a former typist from the other side of the building even on a rubber dome keyboard.
    - gosub100 2y ago
      Perhaps injection molding and plastics in general weren't as advanced at the time?
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      It wasn't a "frame" really, it was just a single sheet of stamped steel in a curved shape. The Model M wasn't nearly as impressive, or durable, as the Model F that preceded it and which was included with the IBM PC. Those keyboards had metal housings, unlike the plastic housings of the Model M.
ryao 2y ago
My unicomp model m died after a few years. I never found time to return it to unicomp for repair and ended up discarding it to clear my long to do list. Reportedly, there were cost saving changes over the years that reduced weight and reliability. The weight reductions are definitely real. I might have just been unlucky with the keyboard failure, although I assume it involved the circuitry for making it work with USB, which the original model m keyboards did not have.
- bluGill 2y ago
  a couple years ago they redid their tooling. They were getting bad because the factory was worn out. Reportably things are much better now.
- gosub100 2y ago
  might want to check out the Daskeyboard. Modern NKRO but built in the extremely rugged style.
acjohnson55 2y ago
I used to work at Lexmark in the same lab as the son of Neil Muyskens, who founded Unicomp.
philistine 2y ago
They're wonderful things, unfortunately Unicomp has not introduced the latest keyboard layouts that have been introduced since 1988. So I can't get my beloved CAN/CSA Z243.200 for a battle-capable keyboard.
SoftTalker 2y ago
They're not so great if you have an open office. You can hear the person with the Model M clattering away from across the room.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  That's a feature, not a bug. The problem here isn't the Model M (or any clicky keyboard), the problem is the open office.
  - taneliv 2y ago
    For the user, this is a bug. Anyone in the office can set up a (directional) microphone and recover what they are typing.[1] Not sure how well you could pick up passphrases, but seems like private messages wouldn't stay private. The user might not have the power to do anything about the open office, but most likely has the power to switch keyboards to something less audible. [1] https://charleslabs.fr/en/project-Breaking+Passwords+with+a+Microphone https://charleslabs.fr/en/project-Breaking+Passwords+with+a+...
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Why should the user care? No corporate employee is worried about other employees figuring out their passwords. If that happens, the employer has bad security, and they'll suffer the consequences anyway. Why should the user put up with a crappy keyboard for the company's sake, unless the company is forcing them to? What an absurd take.
nhecker 2y ago
Former Lexmarker here; I bought a Unicomp keyboard to compliment my beastly Model M that I've used on every single computer I've owned. The Unicomp is good but I keep coming back to the IBM M. It's fun to have something physical that ties my childhood, job, and employment together like that. I like the fact that I can use a piece of electronic equipment on a daily basis and it still hasn't died yet. As another commenter said, there are more modern keyboards available but the feel (and yes the nostalgia) of the M is yet to be beat in my mind for daily use. Although a few of the current ones come close...
- bombcar 2y ago
  The Unicomps are nice and a step up from cheap keyboards, but they’re no model M.
3pm 2y ago
I’m hearing that Lexmark/Unicomp keyboards were/are a cost cutting project compared to original Model F. Interestingly there is a company that resurrected true, pre cost cutting, model F: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com

by chiph 2y ago

onre 2y ago

I have the 122-key version and a ton of Emacs bindings to make the most out of the 24 function keys and the 12-key panel on the left. It is simply the best.

bombcar 2y ago
Someone started making them new: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-m...

kstrauser 2y ago

I bought a Unicomp Type M once to replace my IBM because it had USB, more keys, etc. It was Model M “Lite”: same key feel, same delightful clicky, but much lighter and more flexible. You could march into battle with an IBM Model M. I don’t think you could take on more than one local thug with the Unicomp version.

jhickok 2y ago
New keyboard testing metric just dropped over Christmas break.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  I mean, this is the keyboard people use to run through the dishwasher to clean it. You have to come up with more advanced criteria to really tease them apart. (I just realized that "flexible" above might be interpreted positively, like "applicable in more situations". No, I mean "flexible" as in "may not be satisfactorily used as a bridge over a pothole in case of emergency", which the original would be able to pull off and still be used to write a blog post about the experience afterward.)
  - wholinator2 2y ago
    Is that, is that true? A dishwasher? Was this a regular occurrence? Did they have to turn down the water heater before hand? Did they take the keys off or leave them on and how did they dry if so?
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      That is true. I don't think anyone routinely did that instead of using canned air or something like that, but it was absolutely on the table for more substantial messes. Spill a can of soda into your keyboard? Run that sucker through the washer. I have not personally done this, but google "ibm model m dishwasher" and you'll see lots of anecdotes.
    - a2tech 2y ago
      You can do it today. Don’t run the heated dry and put it in with the keys facing down. Run it and take it out and leave it upside down over night on a towel. Let the connector hand down as well. Should work perfectly in the morning.
    - michaelsshaw 2y ago
      Basically: no. The construction of the Model M disallows removing the backplate after the assembly is removed from the case. On the Model F, however, the backplate is not attached with plastic rivets, and had no rubber membrane that could trap liquids, so after the electronics were removed, it is feasible to wash it in a dishwasher. Inadvisable to say the least, if you want your PCB to remain non-warped.
    - chiph 2y ago
      I've done that a few times but not "regularly". Use the top rack, no soap, no heated dry, zip-tie a plastic bag over the connector. Afterwards let it sit on the counter face-down for a couple of days to air-dry. Comes out sparkly clean.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Most electronics are run through a 'dishwasher' as part of manufacturing. Hot water removes a lot of gunk that if left causes earay failure. chips are plastic, the board is fiberglass, the resisters are ceramic or plastic most capacters are ceramic, the conductors are metal - none of that cares about water once it dries. The only thing to worry about is impurities in the water since they can leave something conductable behind. Some capacters however cannon take water. Likewise I'm note sure if LCDs are sealed enough. be careful of what soap you use though, dishwasher soap is too harsh. Manufactures are using deionized water and if any soap it is specific to electronics. Your house water isn't pure enough to do this often but once ever few years and you will normally get away with it.
saulpw 2y ago
I was all excited for the TKL Unicomp keyboard they introduced a couple years ago. I bought one the second it went up for sale, and plugged it in right away when I got it. I had to ditch it after a few hours. It turns out that certain keypresses won't register if another key is pressed at the same time, and I type fast enough that it was losing keypresses regularly. I haven't had a keyboard with this problem since about 1985. An unconscionable design mistake which tarnishes the entire Unicomp brand for me.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  Nearly all Model M keyboards have horrendous key rollover issues, supporting as little as 2-key rollover and only between certain sets of keys; within a set, the keyboard will only register one keypress or the keyboard will generate garbage keypresses. It sounds like Unicomp designed the newer keyboards to have better PCB designs, but had firmware issues with key rollover on the mini (is that yours?) and may have fixed it: https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/13o0jkr/raspberry_pi_controller_mini_m_only_supports_2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/13o0jkr/raspberry_p... The microcontroller they had been stuck on for ages became unavailable so they started producing models with Rpi2040's, which can run QMK. If you still have it kicking around, maybe it is one of the QMK supported keyboards or they've released a fixed firmware for it? Unfortunately the Model M and derivatives have long been eclipsed by the market. Better electronics/firmware, mechanical switches with choices in travel, force, noise level, and tactile feel... designs with lower profiles, different grid arrangement and almost every key count/layout imaginable...
  - saulpw 2y ago
    Interesting, thanks for the link. I'll investigate and see if I can get it working more better. But FWIW, I have multiple Model M classic keyboards (from 1992), and also other Unicomp full-size keyboards, and I've never had this issue with them. I also know the story that the market has "better" options than the Model M. Maybe it's just nostalgia but I've never found anything with the same feel as a buckling spring. The Model M just feels nice to me.
bombcar 2y ago
The real deal is the IBM model F 122 key one - which can be used to invade small countries. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-m...

MisterTea 2y ago

My 1986 M is still going strong. > If you've never used a Model M, they're beasts. I jokingly call it the preppers keyboard as it can double as a clubbing weapon when SHTF.

ryao 2y ago
That is only the older ones. The newer ones are mostly made out of plastic to save money.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  It's amazing how they had a whole stamped metal frame in there to stiffen it up. Like what was the design criteria that made them think they needed all that steel? Violent cavemen users?
  - Wohlf 2y ago
    They may have expected typists coming over from typewriters to hammer on it for 8 hours a day, or to give them a similar feel to ease the transition and limit complaints.
    - justsomehnguy 2y ago
      This one. You could hear a former typist from the other side of the building even on a rubber dome keyboard.
  - gosub100 2y ago
    Perhaps injection molding and plastics in general weren't as advanced at the time?
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    It wasn't a "frame" really, it was just a single sheet of stamped steel in a curved shape. The Model M wasn't nearly as impressive, or durable, as the Model F that preceded it and which was included with the IBM PC. Those keyboards had metal housings, unlike the plastic housings of the Model M.

ryao 2y ago

My unicomp model m died after a few years. I never found time to return it to unicomp for repair and ended up discarding it to clear my long to do list. Reportedly, there were cost saving changes over the years that reduced weight and reliability. The weight reductions are definitely real. I might have just been unlucky with the keyboard failure, although I assume it involved the circuitry for making it work with USB, which the original model m keyboards did not have.

bluGill 2y ago
a couple years ago they redid their tooling. They were getting bad because the factory was worn out. Reportably things are much better now.
gosub100 2y ago
might want to check out the Daskeyboard. Modern NKRO but built in the extremely rugged style.

acjohnson55 2y ago

I used to work at Lexmark in the same lab as the son of Neil Muyskens, who founded Unicomp.

philistine 2y ago

They're wonderful things, unfortunately Unicomp has not introduced the latest keyboard layouts that have been introduced since 1988. So I can't get my beloved CAN/CSA Z243.200 for a battle-capable keyboard.

SoftTalker 2y ago

They're not so great if you have an open office. You can hear the person with the Model M clattering away from across the room.

shiroiushi 2y ago
That's a feature, not a bug. The problem here isn't the Model M (or any clicky keyboard), the problem is the open office.
- taneliv 2y ago
  For the user, this is a bug. Anyone in the office can set up a (directional) microphone and recover what they are typing.[1] Not sure how well you could pick up passphrases, but seems like private messages wouldn't stay private. The user might not have the power to do anything about the open office, but most likely has the power to switch keyboards to something less audible. [1] https://charleslabs.fr/en/project-Breaking+Passwords+with+a+Microphone https://charleslabs.fr/en/project-Breaking+Passwords+with+a+...
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Why should the user care? No corporate employee is worried about other employees figuring out their passwords. If that happens, the employer has bad security, and they'll suffer the consequences anyway. Why should the user put up with a crappy keyboard for the company's sake, unless the company is forcing them to? What an absurd take.

nhecker 2y ago

Former Lexmarker here; I bought a Unicomp keyboard to compliment my beastly Model M that I've used on every single computer I've owned. The Unicomp is good but I keep coming back to the IBM M. It's fun to have something physical that ties my childhood, job, and employment together like that. I like the fact that I can use a piece of electronic equipment on a daily basis and it still hasn't died yet. As another commenter said, there are more modern keyboards available but the feel (and yes the nostalgia) of the M is yet to be beat in my mind for daily use. Although a few of the current ones come close...

bombcar 2y ago
The Unicomps are nice and a step up from cheap keyboards, but they’re no model M.

3pm 2y ago

I’m hearing that Lexmark/Unicomp keyboards were/are a cost cutting project compared to original Model F. Interestingly there is a company that resurrected true, pre cost cutting, model F: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com