5 ms·

we tested this heavily at mint. the verdict was sign in/sign out is clearest to the average (nontechnical, mass consumer) user... ...but the problem is, so is

by tb303 14y ago

we tested this heavily at mint. the verdict was sign in/sign out is clearest to the average (nontechnical, mass consumer) user... ...but the problem is, so is "sign up." so when in conflict with a third "sign _" action, the preferred and easily recognized choices are "log in," "log out," and "sign up." this is a generalization, but "log on" really only resonates with people who had modems. there you go.

grey-area 14y ago
Sign up, sign in and sign out seems perfectly reasonable to me, and has the advantage of keeping all of these related actions consistently named. If they were unrelated, it would be a problem to have similar naming, but in fact they are all related actions.
- iaskwhy 14y ago
  I usually hate when I see sign __ maybe because English is not my mother tongue. I tend to believe for us foreigners it is better to have two completely different terms.
  - Of_Prometheus 14y ago
    Yes. For many non-natives, they have to get over the meanings of "up", "in", and "out" before proceeding, and the predictable questions of how one signs "up" versus signs "in".
    - grey-area 14y ago
      If you're using an English language website, I think understanding the three words you mention (up, in and out) in context and as modifiers would be required before understanding any significant content. I don't believe the term 'sign in' is esoteric or difficult to grasp, as with its opposite 'sign out', and 'sign up' has a long, long, usage in English for subscribing to something, joining a group, etc. Sign up is required to join the website, sign in is required to access the website later, and sign out is the opposite of sign in. That said these questions are always difficult because differing cultures/usages/dialects, even within one language, can dramatically affect comprehension. So a site really has to be tailored to the particular audience it seeks - a site in the US, the UK or India might use very different terms depending on the particular content it covers. But if you're targeting native speakers of English in most idioms I'm familiar with I think the terms above are pretty clear, and made clearer by using the same verb; other choices make them sound like unrelated actions, which they are not.
      - pygy_ 14y ago
        Non-native here. These composed verbs, whose meaning depend on the modifiers, are definitely confusing. You can go a long way without mastering them, and their meaning (assuming there's only one) isn't always easy to infer from the roots. Think of getting off, for example. Some of the combinations are still not part of my passive vocabulary[1], and most are not part of my active vocabulary, because I can usually get away with synonyms. For this scenario, "log in" and "register" offer the best syntactic contrast, and should be favored, IMO. "Sign in" and "sign up" require more thinking. Pet peeve of mine, actually. [1] There was a vocabulary depth study posted here on HN a while ago, I was at the 95th percentile of non-native speakers, equivalent to the median of natives of my age.
        timthorn 14y ago
        Sign in/out/up in English correspond to actions you might take in your daily life (eg signing in to a visitors' book at a meeting), whereas most people would only have come across log in within a computer related context.
        pygy_ 14y ago
        > Sign in/out/up in English correspond to actions you might take in your daily life... ... in English-speaking countries. > [M]ost people would only have come across log in within a computer related context. Most of the time, non-native speakers come across English in computer-related contexts, i.e. on the Web.
        jeltz 14y ago
        Many non-native English speakers primarily get in contact with English in computer related contexts since they live in a non-English speaking country and use English language websites. This group of customers may be larger than the group of native speakers depending on your target audience. So optimizing for non-native English speakers living in non-English speaking countries is something which should be considered.
        wamatt 14y ago
moe 14y ago
"Sign in" is terrible. Use: "Login" for login. "Logout" for logout. "Sign up" or "Register" for registration. You don't want any ambiguity in your buttons. "Login" is internationally understood, "Sign in" not so much (and takes more effort to visually distinguish from "Sign up").
- panacea 14y ago
  "Login" is terrible (and you should feel bad for suggesting bad UX as though it was right). Users want to provide their identity credentials to access your site and verify who they are. They do that via an electronic signature which is their username and password. Therefore they want to "Sign In" with their signature. The fact that you're 'logging' their signature is secondary to their needs. And as far as making a compound word out of "log" and "in"... well that's stupid (and wow... "Logout" is a new verb created just so you can leave a website securely? Try explaining what that is to someone who has never used the internet... 'no it's not street slang for going to the toilet'). As for your 'more effort to visually distinguish' between "Sign In" and "Sign up", you already solved that problem. "Sign in" and "Register" are the winners. And we don't have to involve any lumps of wood (or new verbs that suggest bowel movements). Once you've registered your signature with the site, the next time you arrive, you merely provide your signature. Register and then Sign In.
  - tb303 14y ago
    > "Login" is terrible (and you should feel bad for suggesting bad UX as though it was right). seconded I also agree that "register" is a great alternate to "sign up." My original intent in responding to this thread is to help educate HN readers between data and opinion when it comes to "good UX." As a designer I've had opinions about these things for years, as we all have. But not all of us have had the opportunity to test our ui lexicon in front of millions of users. So while we might think "oh, register makes more sense," I am simply offering that no, in fact, it did not. "Sign up" was the most commonly-expected term for participating in the system as a non-user. "Register" was viewed as more committal, technical, involved.
    - 14y ago
jamesbritt 14y ago
this is a generalization, but "log on" really only resonates with people who had modems. And with Old Media, who routinely use it to mean "visit a Web site." As in, "Log-on to msnbc.com to get all the details"

by tb303 14y ago

grey-area 14y ago

Sign up, sign in and sign out seems perfectly reasonable to me, and has the advantage of keeping all of these related actions consistently named. If they were unrelated, it would be a problem to have similar naming, but in fact they are all related actions.

iaskwhy 14y ago
I usually hate when I see sign __ maybe because English is not my mother tongue. I tend to believe for us foreigners it is better to have two completely different terms.
- Of_Prometheus 14y ago
  Yes. For many non-natives, they have to get over the meanings of "up", "in", and "out" before proceeding, and the predictable questions of how one signs "up" versus signs "in".
  - grey-area 14y ago
    If you're using an English language website, I think understanding the three words you mention (up, in and out) in context and as modifiers would be required before understanding any significant content. I don't believe the term 'sign in' is esoteric or difficult to grasp, as with its opposite 'sign out', and 'sign up' has a long, long, usage in English for subscribing to something, joining a group, etc. Sign up is required to join the website, sign in is required to access the website later, and sign out is the opposite of sign in. That said these questions are always difficult because differing cultures/usages/dialects, even within one language, can dramatically affect comprehension. So a site really has to be tailored to the particular audience it seeks - a site in the US, the UK or India might use very different terms depending on the particular content it covers. But if you're targeting native speakers of English in most idioms I'm familiar with I think the terms above are pretty clear, and made clearer by using the same verb; other choices make them sound like unrelated actions, which they are not.
    - pygy_ 14y ago
      Non-native here. These composed verbs, whose meaning depend on the modifiers, are definitely confusing. You can go a long way without mastering them, and their meaning (assuming there's only one) isn't always easy to infer from the roots. Think of getting off, for example. Some of the combinations are still not part of my passive vocabulary[1], and most are not part of my active vocabulary, because I can usually get away with synonyms. For this scenario, "log in" and "register" offer the best syntactic contrast, and should be favored, IMO. "Sign in" and "sign up" require more thinking. Pet peeve of mine, actually. [1] There was a vocabulary depth study posted here on HN a while ago, I was at the 95th percentile of non-native speakers, equivalent to the median of natives of my age.
      - timthorn 14y ago
        Sign in/out/up in English correspond to actions you might take in your daily life (eg signing in to a visitors' book at a meeting), whereas most people would only have come across log in within a computer related context.
        pygy_ 14y ago
        > Sign in/out/up in English correspond to actions you might take in your daily life... ... in English-speaking countries. > [M]ost people would only have come across log in within a computer related context. Most of the time, non-native speakers come across English in computer-related contexts, i.e. on the Web.
        jeltz 14y ago
        Many non-native English speakers primarily get in contact with English in computer related contexts since they live in a non-English speaking country and use English language websites. This group of customers may be larger than the group of native speakers depending on your target audience. So optimizing for non-native English speakers living in non-English speaking countries is something which should be considered.
      - wamatt 14y ago

moe 14y ago

"Sign in" is terrible. Use: "Login" for login. "Logout" for logout. "Sign up" or "Register" for registration. You don't want any ambiguity in your buttons. "Login" is internationally understood, "Sign in" not so much (and takes more effort to visually distinguish from "Sign up").

panacea 14y ago
"Login" is terrible (and you should feel bad for suggesting bad UX as though it was right). Users want to provide their identity credentials to access your site and verify who they are. They do that via an electronic signature which is their username and password. Therefore they want to "Sign In" with their signature. The fact that you're 'logging' their signature is secondary to their needs. And as far as making a compound word out of "log" and "in"... well that's stupid (and wow... "Logout" is a new verb created just so you can leave a website securely? Try explaining what that is to someone who has never used the internet... 'no it's not street slang for going to the toilet'). As for your 'more effort to visually distinguish' between "Sign In" and "Sign up", you already solved that problem. "Sign in" and "Register" are the winners. And we don't have to involve any lumps of wood (or new verbs that suggest bowel movements). Once you've registered your signature with the site, the next time you arrive, you merely provide your signature. Register and then Sign In.
- tb303 14y ago
  > "Login" is terrible (and you should feel bad for suggesting bad UX as though it was right). seconded I also agree that "register" is a great alternate to "sign up." My original intent in responding to this thread is to help educate HN readers between data and opinion when it comes to "good UX." As a designer I've had opinions about these things for years, as we all have. But not all of us have had the opportunity to test our ui lexicon in front of millions of users. So while we might think "oh, register makes more sense," I am simply offering that no, in fact, it did not. "Sign up" was the most commonly-expected term for participating in the system as a non-user. "Register" was viewed as more committal, technical, involved.
  - 14y ago

jamesbritt 14y ago

this is a generalization, but "log on" really only resonates with people who had modems. And with Old Media, who routinely use it to mean "visit a Web site." As in, "Log-on to msnbc.com to get all the details"