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I find the whole concept of a critics bizarre. I don't need other people to decide whether to like something or not. If I like some music and the critic does no

I find the whole concept of a critics bizarre. I don't need other people to decide whether to like something or not. If I like some music and the critic does not - what of it? He's just another human being with ears and an opinion.

pmontra 2y ago
Sometimes the critics don't tell if it's good or bad, but what's in there. The story about Asimov and the critic explains that pretty well https://wiki.c2.com/?AsimovAndTheCritic https://wiki.c2.com/?AsimovAndTheCritic TL;DR: "Just because you wrote it, what makes you think you know anything about it?"
saghm 2y ago
Yeah, this is a pretty big difference to lack of trust in "experts" and "institutions". If someone doesn't trust medical experts that they should vaccinate their kids, they perpetuate objectively dangerous illnesses. If someone doesn't trust critics, at worst they perpetuate...subjectively bad movies and music?
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  An unbridled race to the bottom in art seems bad IMO. I expect an (ironically academic) argument about how monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't necessarily entail a race to the bottom. I'd be surprised if someone believes that in reality a monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't entail a race to the bottom, though.
  - saghm 2y ago
    I mean, if you consider what critics don't like to be bad, then yes, critics being ignored would be a bad thing for what gets produced. My point is that what critics think is bad is entirely subjective and not everyone will agree with them. If you start from thinking of critics as "on top", then sure, you'll end up with a race to the bottom without them, but if you think of critics having their own potential motives and their opinions not being some gold standard of what constitutes "good art", then it's not so obvious. Using TFA as an example, is it more likely that first and third albums are actually objectively better more often than not than second albums, and what everyone else thinks is actually wrong, or is it more likely that the critics have a distorted view on things? > I expect an (ironically academic) argument about how monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't necessarily entail a race to the bottom. If the above sounds too academic and pedantically rejecting the idea of mass-market appeal entailing a race to the bottom, let's turn the question around: why are you assuming that the only two options focusing on mass-market appeal or focusing on what critics think? Do you really think that there wouldn't be any music produced for a niche audience if not for critics? There's plenty of existing music that isn't produced for mass market appeal already, and I have trouble believing that it exists only because of critics rather than in spite of them.
TheCoelacanth 2y ago
The point isn't to decide whether to like it or not; it's whether to listen to it or not. You can't listen to even 1% of the music in the world in your lifetime. You need to filter somehow.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  And good criticism should deepen your experience of the art, whether a positive or negative critique.
operator-name 2y ago
You don't, but it can be helpful if you find a critic that strongly aligns with your preferences, or even strongly misaligns with your preferences. Just like a reccomendation from a friend, you can use it to consider if something is worth even giving a try. https://youtu.be/lG2dXobAXLI https://youtu.be/lG2dXobAXLI

pmontra 2y ago

Sometimes the critics don't tell if it's good or bad, but what's in there. The story about Asimov and the critic explains that pretty well https://wiki.c2.com/?AsimovAndTheCritic https://wiki.c2.com/?AsimovAndTheCritic TL;DR: "Just because you wrote it, what makes you think you know anything about it?"

saghm 2y ago

Yeah, this is a pretty big difference to lack of trust in "experts" and "institutions". If someone doesn't trust medical experts that they should vaccinate their kids, they perpetuate objectively dangerous illnesses. If someone doesn't trust critics, at worst they perpetuate...subjectively bad movies and music?

llamaimperative 2y ago
An unbridled race to the bottom in art seems bad IMO. I expect an (ironically academic) argument about how monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't necessarily entail a race to the bottom. I'd be surprised if someone believes that in reality a monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't entail a race to the bottom, though.
- saghm 2y ago
  I mean, if you consider what critics don't like to be bad, then yes, critics being ignored would be a bad thing for what gets produced. My point is that what critics think is bad is entirely subjective and not everyone will agree with them. If you start from thinking of critics as "on top", then sure, you'll end up with a race to the bottom without them, but if you think of critics having their own potential motives and their opinions not being some gold standard of what constitutes "good art", then it's not so obvious. Using TFA as an example, is it more likely that first and third albums are actually objectively better more often than not than second albums, and what everyone else thinks is actually wrong, or is it more likely that the critics have a distorted view on things? > I expect an (ironically academic) argument about how monomaniacal focus on mass-market appeal doesn't necessarily entail a race to the bottom. If the above sounds too academic and pedantically rejecting the idea of mass-market appeal entailing a race to the bottom, let's turn the question around: why are you assuming that the only two options focusing on mass-market appeal or focusing on what critics think? Do you really think that there wouldn't be any music produced for a niche audience if not for critics? There's plenty of existing music that isn't produced for mass market appeal already, and I have trouble believing that it exists only because of critics rather than in spite of them.

TheCoelacanth 2y ago

The point isn't to decide whether to like it or not; it's whether to listen to it or not. You can't listen to even 1% of the music in the world in your lifetime. You need to filter somehow.

llamaimperative 2y ago
And good criticism should deepen your experience of the art, whether a positive or negative critique.

operator-name 2y ago

You don't, but it can be helpful if you find a critic that strongly aligns with your preferences, or even strongly misaligns with your preferences. Just like a reccomendation from a friend, you can use it to consider if something is worth even giving a try. https://youtu.be/lG2dXobAXLI https://youtu.be/lG2dXobAXLI