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For everyone else confused (I didn't hear of the Northern Giant Hornet before and thought of a new species): "July 2022, the Entomological Society of America s

For everyone else confused (I didn't hear of the Northern Giant Hornet before and thought of a new species): "July 2022, the Entomological Society of America stated that they will adopt the common name northern giant hornet for the species to avoid potentially discriminatory language" -Wikipedia [Edit] This is not meant judgemental

zahlman 2y ago
> It is native to temperate and tropical East Asia, South Asia, Mainland Southeast Asia, and parts of the Russian Far East. It was also found in the Pacific Northwest of North America ... in what sense is this hornet "northern"? And in what sense is it "discriminatory" to point out the regional origin of a phenomenon?
- tjohns 2y ago
  It's "northern" when you compare its range with the other giant hornet, vespa soror or the "southern giant hornet". You can compare the ranges here: https://entsoc.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/vespa-mandarinia-soror-range-map.png https://entsoc.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/vespa-mandari...
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Which I now learned, is "invading" Europe (The southern giant hornet), thanks. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11549532/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11549532/
- tzs 2y ago
  > ... in what sense is this hornet "northern"? All hornets are native or common to Asia (the North American native insects commonly referred to as hornets are actually yellowjackets), so calling something an "Asian hornet" or even "Asian giant hornet" doesn't really tell you much. It thus makes sense when coming up with a common name for a hornet species to pick something that distinguishes it from the other hornets, such as where its range is relative to others. As to why they avoid regional origins in common names, the the Entomological Society of America says [1]: > "Common names are an important tool for entomologists to communicate with the public about insects and insect science," says ESA President Jessica Ware, Ph.D. "Northern giant hornet is both scientifically accurate and easy to understand, and it avoids evoking fear or discrimination." [...] > In 2021, ESA adopted new guidelines for acceptable insect common names, which bar names referring to ethnic or racial groups and names that might stoke fear; the policies also discourage geographic references, particularly for invasive species. The Society also launched the Better Common Names Project, an effort to review and replace insect common names that may be inappropriate or offensive. No common name for Vespa mandarinia has been previously adopted by ESA, and neither name used in popular discourse meets ESA's guidelines. [...] > Amid a rise in hate crimes and discrimination against people of Asian descent, usage of "Asian" in the name of a pest insect can unintentionally bolster anti-Asian sentiment. And, from a taxonomic perspective, all hornets—22 species of wasps in the genus Vespa—are native or common to Asia, meaning "Asian giant hornet" does not convey unique information about the biology or behavior of the species Vespa mandarinia. They cite a news report on the rise in anti-Asian violence in the US. They probably want to avoid things like this, one of the examples from that news report: > In March 2020, Bawi Cung and his 6-year-old son were attacked by a man armed with a knife at a Sam’s Club in Midland, Texas. The man, who later pleaded guilty to hate-crime charges, thought the Burmese American family was Chinese and blamed them for COVID-19. There are a lot of complete morons who if something bad in the news is labeled as the "X something" where X is a country, region, religion, or probably anything else that is associated with an identifiable group will think any random individual they encounter from that group personally bears significant responsibility for that bad thing. Wikipedia's got a long article of examples where the something was COVID [2]. [1] https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_racism_related_...
  - zahlman 2y ago
    > In March 2020, Bawi Cung and his 6-year-old son were attacked by a man armed with a knife at a Sam’s Club in Midland, Texas. The man, who later pleaded guilty to hate-crime charges, thought the Burmese American family was Chinese and blamed them for COVID-19. The supposed causal link here seems incredibly strained, and I don't see a good reason to believe that they could actually avoid these things by changing the name. Especially since these kinds of name changes just lead to curiousity, which leads to people forming conspiracy theories about them. > Wikipedia's got a long article of examples Wikipedia is the absolute last place anyone should check for anything remotely politically or "culture war" charged, especially if it involves discerning the thought processes of anyone in a political group not well represented among the most powerful (in the sense of internal Wikipedia politics) Wikipedia editors.
    - tzs 2y ago
      In the knife attack in Texas the causal link between news about something bad originating in Asia and the attack seems pretty direct. The attacker said in court that he blamed China for the COVID pandemic, mistook the Burmese for Chinese, and perceived them as a thread because they were "from the country who started spreading that disease around". Note at the time of the attack the attacker probably did not actually know anyone who had COVID and probably hadn't even been personally affected by anti-COVID measures. The attack was a mere 4 days after the first confirmed COVID case in Texas from community spread, and only 3 days after the WHO had declared COVID a pandemic. The governor had declared a disaster the day before which gave him powers to order state-wide health measures, but no such measures had actually been undertaken.
- gnmal 2y ago
  [flagged]
water-data-dude 2y ago
I always just referred to them as “murder hornets” anyway (see the bee massacre video below) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8B4bcrSs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8B4bcrSs8

zahlman 2y ago

> It is native to temperate and tropical East Asia, South Asia, Mainland Southeast Asia, and parts of the Russian Far East. It was also found in the Pacific Northwest of North America ... in what sense is this hornet "northern"? And in what sense is it "discriminatory" to point out the regional origin of a phenomenon?

tjohns 2y ago
It's "northern" when you compare its range with the other giant hornet, vespa soror or the "southern giant hornet". You can compare the ranges here: https://entsoc.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/vespa-mandarinia-soror-range-map.png https://entsoc.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/vespa-mandari...
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Which I now learned, is "invading" Europe (The southern giant hornet), thanks. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11549532/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11549532/
tzs 2y ago
> ... in what sense is this hornet "northern"? All hornets are native or common to Asia (the North American native insects commonly referred to as hornets are actually yellowjackets), so calling something an "Asian hornet" or even "Asian giant hornet" doesn't really tell you much. It thus makes sense when coming up with a common name for a hornet species to pick something that distinguishes it from the other hornets, such as where its range is relative to others. As to why they avoid regional origins in common names, the the Entomological Society of America says [1]: > "Common names are an important tool for entomologists to communicate with the public about insects and insect science," says ESA President Jessica Ware, Ph.D. "Northern giant hornet is both scientifically accurate and easy to understand, and it avoids evoking fear or discrimination." [...] > In 2021, ESA adopted new guidelines for acceptable insect common names, which bar names referring to ethnic or racial groups and names that might stoke fear; the policies also discourage geographic references, particularly for invasive species. The Society also launched the Better Common Names Project, an effort to review and replace insect common names that may be inappropriate or offensive. No common name for Vespa mandarinia has been previously adopted by ESA, and neither name used in popular discourse meets ESA's guidelines. [...] > Amid a rise in hate crimes and discrimination against people of Asian descent, usage of "Asian" in the name of a pest insect can unintentionally bolster anti-Asian sentiment. And, from a taxonomic perspective, all hornets—22 species of wasps in the genus Vespa—are native or common to Asia, meaning "Asian giant hornet" does not convey unique information about the biology or behavior of the species Vespa mandarinia. They cite a news report on the rise in anti-Asian violence in the US. They probably want to avoid things like this, one of the examples from that news report: > In March 2020, Bawi Cung and his 6-year-old son were attacked by a man armed with a knife at a Sam’s Club in Midland, Texas. The man, who later pleaded guilty to hate-crime charges, thought the Burmese American family was Chinese and blamed them for COVID-19. There are a lot of complete morons who if something bad in the news is labeled as the "X something" where X is a country, region, religion, or probably anything else that is associated with an identifiable group will think any random individual they encounter from that group personally bears significant responsibility for that bad thing. Wikipedia's got a long article of examples where the something was COVID [2]. [1] https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_racism_related_...
- zahlman 2y ago
  > In March 2020, Bawi Cung and his 6-year-old son were attacked by a man armed with a knife at a Sam’s Club in Midland, Texas. The man, who later pleaded guilty to hate-crime charges, thought the Burmese American family was Chinese and blamed them for COVID-19. The supposed causal link here seems incredibly strained, and I don't see a good reason to believe that they could actually avoid these things by changing the name. Especially since these kinds of name changes just lead to curiousity, which leads to people forming conspiracy theories about them. > Wikipedia's got a long article of examples Wikipedia is the absolute last place anyone should check for anything remotely politically or "culture war" charged, especially if it involves discerning the thought processes of anyone in a political group not well represented among the most powerful (in the sense of internal Wikipedia politics) Wikipedia editors.
  - tzs 2y ago
    In the knife attack in Texas the causal link between news about something bad originating in Asia and the attack seems pretty direct. The attacker said in court that he blamed China for the COVID pandemic, mistook the Burmese for Chinese, and perceived them as a thread because they were "from the country who started spreading that disease around". Note at the time of the attack the attacker probably did not actually know anyone who had COVID and probably hadn't even been personally affected by anti-COVID measures. The attack was a mere 4 days after the first confirmed COVID case in Texas from community spread, and only 3 days after the WHO had declared COVID a pandemic. The governor had declared a disaster the day before which gave him powers to order state-wide health measures, but no such measures had actually been undertaken.
gnmal 2y ago
[flagged]

water-data-dude 2y ago

I always just referred to them as “murder hornets” anyway (see the bee massacre video below) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8B4bcrSs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8B4bcrSs8