6 ms·

This is the Asian giant hornet. Apparently they had to make a euphemism that would obfuscate the continent of origin, when being from the wrong continent is pre

by kleton 2y ago

This is the Asian giant hornet. Apparently they had to make a euphemism that would obfuscate the continent of origin, when being from the wrong continent is precisely the reason it needed to be eradicated.

LeFantome 2y ago
They are absolutely devastating to bee hives.
- tptacek 2y ago
  Honey bee hives, meanwhile, are destructive to native pollinators.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Water under the bridge. Nobody serious proposes the eradication of European honey bees in North America, nor cites them as a reason to not manage other invasive species.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      The eradication of honey bees would create a crisis on the level of climate change. The amount of tech and labor needed to sustain such an eco system that bees simply do as a built-in part of life would unironically cost into the trillions of dollars.
      - ianburrell 2y ago
        There are hundreds of kinds of native solitary bees that pollinate in the wild. They would do better without competition from honey bees. More important is to have native plants and wild places for them. Honey bees are livestock. They are important for pollinating crops and producing honey. But we shouldn't consider them important part of ecosystem. In my yard, I planted native plants and got more bumblebees and other native bees which are hard to tell from flies.
        AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        If we really cared about this at all We'd look at one map of the deforestation of the North America / United States since the arrival of the European colonization. I think there'd be plenty of plants for all types of pollinators if we went back to such a a map.
        tptacek 2y ago
        We're not going back to that map, and meanwhile invasive livestock honey bees are in fact outcompeting our native pollinators.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        >Honey bees are livestock. They are important for pollinating crops and producing honey. But we shouldn't consider them important part of ecosystem. Europeans brought them over centuries ago. Just becsuse they weren't a natural part back then doesn't mean that closing the bottle won't have devastating after effects similar to what they did in the first place. There's a point where an invasive species simply becomes the "natural" and I believe we crossed that line quite a whole ago. I'm not entirely sure that modern nature could sustain only on those solitary bees in the 21st century just becsuse it worked in the 14th century (you know, assuming we don't devastate nature anymore so than we've done the past century).
        tptacek 2y ago
        So, two things. First, nobody is seriously proposing to outlaw or eliminate livestock honey bees. They're too valuable for agricultural service. Of course, thinking about what is good or not good for commercial bee colonies is a lot like thinking about what's good or not good for battery-farmed pigs; in fact: what's "good" in our natural ecology for livestock pigs has turned out to be a calamity across North America as feral pigs multiply uncontrollably. Either way: the bees aren't going anywhere. New stressors of bee colonies will simply raise costs for beekeepers. Second, the idea that the extinction of feral honey bees would be "devastating" is directly falsifiable, because they have been eradicated from North America, in the recent past. The world did not end; in fact: you didn't even notice. What you want to be paying attention to are our diverse native pollinators, including a variety of native bees. If you want to help our insect ecology, get some mason bee tubes. Unless you really like fresh honey, don't bother with the honey bees.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Uh, not as I understand it. Feral honey bees have been functionally extinct in North America since the Varroa Destructor mite wiped them out in the 1980s and 1990s. The honey bees we see today are livestock, not wildlife. (Extensive husbandry has probably [unfortunately, unintentionally] reestablished feral colonies in some states, but a few years ago it was apparently the case that any honey bee you saw in your yard probably had an owner, which is wild to think about.) https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/2023/1/19/23552518/honey-bees-native-bees-decline https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/2023/1/19/23552518/honey-b...
wlesieutre 2y ago
It’s in contrast to vespa soror, the southern giant hornet, which inhabits more southern climates in Asia. Both of them are giant hornet species from Asia so “Asian giant hornet” isn’t a unique descriptor.
- ungruntled 2y ago
  It seems that the adoption of the southern/northern names was in part related to what GP is referring to. https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet...
- kleton 2y ago
  They could have gone with northern asian hornet, to follow proper taxonomy of including general and specific.
  - greggsy 2y ago
    The only Asian country that is distinctly ‘northern’ is North Korea, and the media wouldn’t have shied away from using it in fear of people making the connection. At the end of the day, the whole argument is stupid.
    - lobochrome 2y ago
      What? Japan, China, Russia, Mongolia?
      - woodruffw 2y ago
        I think they meant in terms of American cultural understanding, not latitude. I suspect most Americans don’t think of Russia as in Asia (despite the fact that it is) or Japan as being as far north as it actually is.
        lupusreal 2y ago
redeux 2y ago
If anyone is wondering, the infamous “they” in this case is The Entomological Society of America, not the USDA or WSDA. You can read the press release here: https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet... Their guide to creating common names for insects is here: https://entsoc.org/publications/common-names/use-submission https://entsoc.org/publications/common-names/use-submission
kbutler 2y ago
There wasn't a common name for the multiple species before. The name change to distinguish the two species was done in 2020 to: - avoid the perceived unnecessary qualifier "Asian" - avoid potential harmful negative perceptions being associated with "Asian" https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/murder-hornets-asian-giant-hornets-new-name https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/murder-ho...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by kleton 2y ago

LeFantome 2y ago

They are absolutely devastating to bee hives.

tptacek 2y ago
Honey bee hives, meanwhile, are destructive to native pollinators.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Water under the bridge. Nobody serious proposes the eradication of European honey bees in North America, nor cites them as a reason to not manage other invasive species.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    The eradication of honey bees would create a crisis on the level of climate change. The amount of tech and labor needed to sustain such an eco system that bees simply do as a built-in part of life would unironically cost into the trillions of dollars.
    - ianburrell 2y ago
      There are hundreds of kinds of native solitary bees that pollinate in the wild. They would do better without competition from honey bees. More important is to have native plants and wild places for them. Honey bees are livestock. They are important for pollinating crops and producing honey. But we shouldn't consider them important part of ecosystem. In my yard, I planted native plants and got more bumblebees and other native bees which are hard to tell from flies.
      - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        If we really cared about this at all We'd look at one map of the deforestation of the North America / United States since the arrival of the European colonization. I think there'd be plenty of plants for all types of pollinators if we went back to such a a map.
        tptacek 2y ago
        We're not going back to that map, and meanwhile invasive livestock honey bees are in fact outcompeting our native pollinators.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        >Honey bees are livestock. They are important for pollinating crops and producing honey. But we shouldn't consider them important part of ecosystem. Europeans brought them over centuries ago. Just becsuse they weren't a natural part back then doesn't mean that closing the bottle won't have devastating after effects similar to what they did in the first place. There's a point where an invasive species simply becomes the "natural" and I believe we crossed that line quite a whole ago. I'm not entirely sure that modern nature could sustain only on those solitary bees in the 21st century just becsuse it worked in the 14th century (you know, assuming we don't devastate nature anymore so than we've done the past century).
        tptacek 2y ago
        So, two things. First, nobody is seriously proposing to outlaw or eliminate livestock honey bees. They're too valuable for agricultural service. Of course, thinking about what is good or not good for commercial bee colonies is a lot like thinking about what's good or not good for battery-farmed pigs; in fact: what's "good" in our natural ecology for livestock pigs has turned out to be a calamity across North America as feral pigs multiply uncontrollably. Either way: the bees aren't going anywhere. New stressors of bee colonies will simply raise costs for beekeepers. Second, the idea that the extinction of feral honey bees would be "devastating" is directly falsifiable, because they have been eradicated from North America, in the recent past. The world did not end; in fact: you didn't even notice. What you want to be paying attention to are our diverse native pollinators, including a variety of native bees. If you want to help our insect ecology, get some mason bee tubes. Unless you really like fresh honey, don't bother with the honey bees.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Uh, not as I understand it. Feral honey bees have been functionally extinct in North America since the Varroa Destructor mite wiped them out in the 1980s and 1990s. The honey bees we see today are livestock, not wildlife. (Extensive husbandry has probably [unfortunately, unintentionally] reestablished feral colonies in some states, but a few years ago it was apparently the case that any honey bee you saw in your yard probably had an owner, which is wild to think about.) https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/2023/1/19/23552518/honey-bees-native-bees-decline https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/2023/1/19/23552518/honey-b...

wlesieutre 2y ago

It’s in contrast to vespa soror, the southern giant hornet, which inhabits more southern climates in Asia. Both of them are giant hornet species from Asia so “Asian giant hornet” isn’t a unique descriptor.

ungruntled 2y ago
It seems that the adoption of the southern/northern names was in part related to what GP is referring to. https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet...
kleton 2y ago
They could have gone with northern asian hornet, to follow proper taxonomy of including general and specific.
- greggsy 2y ago
  The only Asian country that is distinctly ‘northern’ is North Korea, and the media wouldn’t have shied away from using it in fear of people making the connection. At the end of the day, the whole argument is stupid.
  - lobochrome 2y ago
    What? Japan, China, Russia, Mongolia?
    - woodruffw 2y ago
      I think they meant in terms of American cultural understanding, not latitude. I suspect most Americans don’t think of Russia as in Asia (despite the fact that it is) or Japan as being as far north as it actually is.
      - lupusreal 2y ago

redeux 2y ago

If anyone is wondering, the infamous “they” in this case is The Entomological Society of America, not the USDA or WSDA. You can read the press release here: https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet-common-name-vespa-mandarinia https://entsoc.org/news/press-releases/northern-giant-hornet... Their guide to creating common names for insects is here: https://entsoc.org/publications/common-names/use-submission https://entsoc.org/publications/common-names/use-submission

kbutler 2y ago

There wasn't a common name for the multiple species before. The name change to distinguish the two species was done in 2020 to: - avoid the perceived unnecessary qualifier "Asian" - avoid potential harmful negative perceptions being associated with "Asian" https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/murder-hornets-asian-giant-hornets-new-name https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/murder-ho...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]