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China has access to all of our tech leaks, and yet, they cannot replicate it, neither can Russia, heck Russia has these really powerful jet planes... but they g

China has access to all of our tech leaks, and yet, they cannot replicate it, neither can Russia, heck Russia has these really powerful jet planes... but they got less than a handful of them, and their GDP is comparable to the state of Florida's GDP.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> yet, they cannot replicate it, neither can Russia, heck Russia has these really powerful jet planes Russia has powerful Soviet-era planes. Their new kit is demonstrably crap, being unable to establish even air supremacy against a foe wielding handfuls of decades-old air defence equipment. There is also a P != NP difference between replicating a war machine and reverse engineering it sufficiently to defeat it, e.g. designing a radar that mitigates its stealth.
- Roark66 2y ago
  I can confirm, as someone who collects Soviet era electronics and buys replacement parts. Russian manufacturing is really bad now and very far from what it was during the Soviet era. Perhaps in part because of past cooperation between various countries of the communist block that is no longer there. For example Belarus and Poland made a lot of the integrated circuits(chips) back then. There are certain items, for example military radios like the R-140M almost every country had a local version of. For example the Russian version still used a vacuum tube as a delay timer well into the 80s while the Polish version had a box of digital logic.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    Can I ask how you even got into such a thing?
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      Just get a HAM radio license :)
throwaway48476 2y ago
To a large extent China has been able to replicate.
- kbolino 2y ago
  China has faced less strict sanctions and has been able to engage in much more aggressive academic and industrial espionage than post-Soviet Russia. It remains to be seen whether, now that sanctions have ramped up, and access to Western/Japanese research and expertise is being curtailed, they can maintain what they've already replicated, never mind build on it to make newer and better things.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    China simply outspends russia a hundred times over. When you account for china's full security budget it's almost the same as US defense spending when accounting for PPP. China is also the world's factory and many components of modern weapons are dual use goods of which China is the supply chain. The problem that no one dares speak is that there is no wholly domestic supply chain for most electronics and other components anymore. If war were to break out with China US defense production would halt immediately.
shadowerm 2y ago
I just really doubt this when it comes to China. Betting against China being able to build anything at this point seems pretty dumb. Almost delusional I would say.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  Why? Have you not seen how low quality the things they build are? Among gun collectors, Chinese made guns are considered a fat joke, unreliable. Guns of all things, they invented gun powder! Then there's buildings, literally fall apart out of nowhere. Their standards of building things are very shockingly bad. There is no motivation to do high quality work. There was the hospital they built during COVID that collapsed after 3 months.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    Those problems aren't limited to China. Just look at the crumbling infrastructe of the 'west'. Besides that they do produce high-quality stuff, even if only specified to that level by 'western' investors/corporations.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> yet, they cannot replicate it, neither can Russia, heck Russia has these really powerful jet planes Russia has powerful Soviet-era planes. Their new kit is demonstrably crap, being unable to establish even air supremacy against a foe wielding handfuls of decades-old air defence equipment. There is also a P != NP difference between replicating a war machine and reverse engineering it sufficiently to defeat it, e.g. designing a radar that mitigates its stealth.

Roark66 2y ago
I can confirm, as someone who collects Soviet era electronics and buys replacement parts. Russian manufacturing is really bad now and very far from what it was during the Soviet era. Perhaps in part because of past cooperation between various countries of the communist block that is no longer there. For example Belarus and Poland made a lot of the integrated circuits(chips) back then. There are certain items, for example military radios like the R-140M almost every country had a local version of. For example the Russian version still used a vacuum tube as a delay timer well into the 80s while the Polish version had a box of digital logic.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  Can I ask how you even got into such a thing?
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Just get a HAM radio license :)

throwaway48476 2y ago

To a large extent China has been able to replicate.

kbolino 2y ago
China has faced less strict sanctions and has been able to engage in much more aggressive academic and industrial espionage than post-Soviet Russia. It remains to be seen whether, now that sanctions have ramped up, and access to Western/Japanese research and expertise is being curtailed, they can maintain what they've already replicated, never mind build on it to make newer and better things.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  China simply outspends russia a hundred times over. When you account for china's full security budget it's almost the same as US defense spending when accounting for PPP. China is also the world's factory and many components of modern weapons are dual use goods of which China is the supply chain. The problem that no one dares speak is that there is no wholly domestic supply chain for most electronics and other components anymore. If war were to break out with China US defense production would halt immediately.

shadowerm 2y ago

I just really doubt this when it comes to China. Betting against China being able to build anything at this point seems pretty dumb. Almost delusional I would say.

giancarlostoro 2y ago
Why? Have you not seen how low quality the things they build are? Among gun collectors, Chinese made guns are considered a fat joke, unreliable. Guns of all things, they invented gun powder! Then there's buildings, literally fall apart out of nowhere. Their standards of building things are very shockingly bad. There is no motivation to do high quality work. There was the hospital they built during COVID that collapsed after 3 months.
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
  Those problems aren't limited to China. Just look at the crumbling infrastructe of the 'west'. Besides that they do produce high-quality stuff, even if only specified to that level by 'western' investors/corporations.