4 ms·

Sadly common at hardware companies. The most extreme case I've heard of is ASML, who supposedly doesn't keep any machines of their own. They test against "almos

Sadly common at hardware companies. The most extreme case I've heard of is ASML, who supposedly doesn't keep any machines of their own. They test against "almost-ready" machines right before they go out the door to customers.

rahkiin 2y ago
That’s why they cooperate closely with imec and their FAB in Leuven
dmoy 2y ago
ASML might be an extreme outlier though, don't those things cost like $50 million+ each?
- amirhirsch 2y ago
  Put a 1 or 2 in front of that
- tonetegeatinst 2y ago
  Many for last gen process nodes, and from a second or third hand supplier if you could even find one. ASML makes very few fully working machines each year, and the cost and throughput those machines have is astronomical. They have spare parts you'd bet, and I'd bet they have some SLA agreement with each customer where an engineer is basically on call nearby in case a single thing dosnt work or a random part breaks or needs servicing. Asianometry did a great video on the cost of downtime when it comes to ASML device in any fab. While I am not directly in this field and can't speak to the accuracy of the numbers john gives, he does not seem one to just make stuff up as his quality of video production for niche topics is quite good.
  - bobmcnamara 2y ago
    Almost a decade ago KFAB had a fire, power was cut, everything in process was dumped, they planned to restart but ended up being was cheaper to close the whole facility . Probably for the best though, KFAB had been discharging several tons of solvents, cleaning agents, and reagents per year into the surrounding area [for as long as it ran](https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/64063TTTCH777NB https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/640...) https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/64063TTTCH777NB https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/640...
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  try 400 mil
whazor 2y ago
Actually, they shipped not-ready machines to customers. In hope they could find solutions that can fix the machine later.
Flenkno 2y ago
You are comparing a machine the size of a container with GPUs? its nice to be aware of this but this is so fastly different from a critisism point of view that i don't think that matters.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  It's not a criticism, it's an extreme example from a company people know that I have no particular NDA restrictions with.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  I found it interesting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

rahkiin 2y ago

That’s why they cooperate closely with imec and their FAB in Leuven

dmoy 2y ago

ASML might be an extreme outlier though, don't those things cost like $50 million+ each?

amirhirsch 2y ago
Put a 1 or 2 in front of that
tonetegeatinst 2y ago
Many for last gen process nodes, and from a second or third hand supplier if you could even find one. ASML makes very few fully working machines each year, and the cost and throughput those machines have is astronomical. They have spare parts you'd bet, and I'd bet they have some SLA agreement with each customer where an engineer is basically on call nearby in case a single thing dosnt work or a random part breaks or needs servicing. Asianometry did a great video on the cost of downtime when it comes to ASML device in any fab. While I am not directly in this field and can't speak to the accuracy of the numbers john gives, he does not seem one to just make stuff up as his quality of video production for niche topics is quite good.
- bobmcnamara 2y ago
  Almost a decade ago KFAB had a fire, power was cut, everything in process was dumped, they planned to restart but ended up being was cheaper to close the whole facility . Probably for the best though, KFAB had been discharging several tons of solvents, cleaning agents, and reagents per year into the surrounding area [for as long as it ran](https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/64063TTTCH777NB https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/640...) https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/64063TTTCH777NB https://enviro.epa.gov/facts/tri/ef-facilities/#/Release/640...
adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
try 400 mil

whazor 2y ago

Actually, they shipped not-ready machines to customers. In hope they could find solutions that can fix the machine later.

Flenkno 2y ago

You are comparing a machine the size of a container with GPUs? its nice to be aware of this but this is so fastly different from a critisism point of view that i don't think that matters.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
It's not a criticism, it's an extreme example from a company people know that I have no particular NDA restrictions with.
llamaimperative 2y ago
I found it interesting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯