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I think calling them "demons" is part of the problem. I take my delusion as clues, psychic hints, a sort of over sensitivity and Cassandra like quality, that sh

I think calling them "demons" is part of the problem. I take my delusion as clues, psychic hints, a sort of over sensitivity and Cassandra like quality, that should be used by people without schizo. But I cannot tell you how many time sI was called stupid and crazy about my ideas on here yet I talk with research scientists on the regular. To me Schizo is nothing more than an intensely creative mind. Why see nothing when you can see somthing? Note that hunter gatherer genetics are linked to schizo and the idea of aa demon is a particularly Christian view of insights that do not fit the norm. More so if the ideas were coming from "pagan" people. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/evolutionary-psychiatry/huntergatherers-mismatch-and-mental-disorder/8205CFCBE785351D4AE740F4EC95B8A7 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/evolutionary-psychi...

inglor_cz 2y ago
TBH these voices might have been the original reason why "demons" got defined by the ancients as evil spirits. They often speak evil things, are unseen to the general population, but torment the sufferer ... a basic candidate for the category of "demon", especially in pre-modern times. Also, I don't think that demons are a particularly Christian phenomenon. They certainly predate Christianity and various "heathen" religions were full of them: Indo-European, Amerindian, African... But the idea of schizophrenia as a very intense mind going on empty is interesting. Only I would say that it needs some specific pathway to go down the schizophrenic route. Plenty of people with intense fantasies are normally adjusted and don't fulfill the criteria for a mental disease.
- dsego 2y ago
  But it does look like there are some people who are tormented by mental issues and preoccupied with bizarre thoughts, occult imagery, and aggressive behaviors. And honestly, even though I've seen myself how meds work on my family member, it's so surreal to believe after seeing such manifestations, and demons would be the right term for the behaviors I've seen first hand, it also sounded like a living nightmare to the person experiencing it. The acceptance of these nonsensical ideas and going with the flow reminded me of how dreams work, but at least I'm not awake to live out the dream.
  - kayodelycaon 2y ago
    My dad thinks manic episodes are demon possession. If antipsychotics fix the problem, was it really demon-possession?
    - wongarsu 2y ago
      The antipsychotics turn the body bitter, making it less comfortable for the demon. Hence the demon leaves for a better target. Well, probably not. But if demon possessions were a real thing there is no reason why only medieval remedies should be effective against them
    - I_Am_Nous 2y ago
      If the demons control your body by abusing your brain and nerve impulses, it could be. Our bodies work through electrical signals and various neurotransmitters like serotonin, so an anti-psychotic that affects brain receptors could prevent such a "hotwiring". Would it be any different than if aliens could beam signals to individual neurons to force you to do something? What about a skilled surgeon with an Arduino, or those seizure prevention circuits they can install?
Biologist123 2y ago
I sometimes wonder if the voices are suppressed in the “healthy” population, but to some extent still influential - but dangerous in that they operate out of sight. For reference: non-professional opinion.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  That seems like a Freudian theory of repressed trauma or the more general idea of "coping mechanisms" that go wrong. The "healthy" mind isn't afraid/ashamed to hear and process discomforting thoughts. For the more fragile mind, pushing them back makes them more and more intrusive. Ronnie Laing, Thomas Szasz, Erich Fromm, and many others have said, variously; "Mental illness is a sane reaction to an insane world", "In a mad world, only the mad are sane", or "Coping is making yourself part of the problem". That's not the same as being dismissive about the state of world, or legitimising/glorifying real and distressing medical insanity - it's just saying; be careful how you "cope". That said, just look around you. Aren't intrusive voices just reason tired of us telling it to shut up.
  - Biologist123 2y ago
    I’d say it’s less Freud than it is Internal Family Systems theory, which posits human personality is multiple. And we’ve somehow learned to suppress voices that we know sub-consciously to be unacceptable, maybe through socialization etc. Writing this, I make the leap to Jung and need for awareness and management of these suppressed voices before they overwhelm us. I’m conscious I am (maybe we are) fumbling towards statement or acknowledgment of the same thing. PS I like what you wrote!

inglor_cz 2y ago

TBH these voices might have been the original reason why "demons" got defined by the ancients as evil spirits. They often speak evil things, are unseen to the general population, but torment the sufferer ... a basic candidate for the category of "demon", especially in pre-modern times. Also, I don't think that demons are a particularly Christian phenomenon. They certainly predate Christianity and various "heathen" religions were full of them: Indo-European, Amerindian, African... But the idea of schizophrenia as a very intense mind going on empty is interesting. Only I would say that it needs some specific pathway to go down the schizophrenic route. Plenty of people with intense fantasies are normally adjusted and don't fulfill the criteria for a mental disease.

dsego 2y ago
But it does look like there are some people who are tormented by mental issues and preoccupied with bizarre thoughts, occult imagery, and aggressive behaviors. And honestly, even though I've seen myself how meds work on my family member, it's so surreal to believe after seeing such manifestations, and demons would be the right term for the behaviors I've seen first hand, it also sounded like a living nightmare to the person experiencing it. The acceptance of these nonsensical ideas and going with the flow reminded me of how dreams work, but at least I'm not awake to live out the dream.
- kayodelycaon 2y ago
  My dad thinks manic episodes are demon possession. If antipsychotics fix the problem, was it really demon-possession?
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    The antipsychotics turn the body bitter, making it less comfortable for the demon. Hence the demon leaves for a better target. Well, probably not. But if demon possessions were a real thing there is no reason why only medieval remedies should be effective against them
  - I_Am_Nous 2y ago
    If the demons control your body by abusing your brain and nerve impulses, it could be. Our bodies work through electrical signals and various neurotransmitters like serotonin, so an anti-psychotic that affects brain receptors could prevent such a "hotwiring". Would it be any different than if aliens could beam signals to individual neurons to force you to do something? What about a skilled surgeon with an Arduino, or those seizure prevention circuits they can install?

Biologist123 2y ago

I sometimes wonder if the voices are suppressed in the “healthy” population, but to some extent still influential - but dangerous in that they operate out of sight. For reference: non-professional opinion.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
That seems like a Freudian theory of repressed trauma or the more general idea of "coping mechanisms" that go wrong. The "healthy" mind isn't afraid/ashamed to hear and process discomforting thoughts. For the more fragile mind, pushing them back makes them more and more intrusive. Ronnie Laing, Thomas Szasz, Erich Fromm, and many others have said, variously; "Mental illness is a sane reaction to an insane world", "In a mad world, only the mad are sane", or "Coping is making yourself part of the problem". That's not the same as being dismissive about the state of world, or legitimising/glorifying real and distressing medical insanity - it's just saying; be careful how you "cope". That said, just look around you. Aren't intrusive voices just reason tired of us telling it to shut up.
- Biologist123 2y ago
  I’d say it’s less Freud than it is Internal Family Systems theory, which posits human personality is multiple. And we’ve somehow learned to suppress voices that we know sub-consciously to be unacceptable, maybe through socialization etc. Writing this, I make the leap to Jung and need for awareness and management of these suppressed voices before they overwhelm us. I’m conscious I am (maybe we are) fumbling towards statement or acknowledgment of the same thing. PS I like what you wrote!