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> However St. Augustine is someone that I am particularly certain had a clear understanding of this, and I can see it in how he frames most of his ideas. Can y

> However St. Augustine is someone that I am particularly certain had a clear understanding of this, and I can see it in how he frames most of his ideas. Can you give me an example of one? > To me as a young kid, it was immediately obvious that there were deeper ethical principles being explained in these stories, and one had to be an idiot to be worried about if they were objective factual details or not Again, an example? You are suggesting for example that there is no redemption or afterlife but they convey some point? > If the people writing them thought that was important, they would have avoided doing so- contrary to modern opinion, ancient theologians and philosophers like St. Augustine were not idiots. Does Augustine contradict himself? In a single work (different views in different works could be a change of mind)?

_yb2s 2y ago
Look at Wikiquote for some of St Augustines most well known quotes with what I am saying in mind- if you can’t see a dozen examples you’re not going to agree with a specific one I point out either. I am refusing to give a specific example for a reason- you will almost certainly disagree immediately with the specific example - because they are written with an alternate interpretation possible on purpose - and then think my whole premise must be wrong as a result without looking at the bigger picture, and seeing how often this plausibly deniable concept keeps coming up. > You are suggesting for example that there is no redemption or afterlife I am suggesting no such thing, only that dwelling on this issue is to miss the point, and even worrying about it would be an obstacle. One must deeply feel these ideas and practice accordingly to follow this spiritual path- even getting stuck on arguing that they are true would be an obstacle to that.
_yb2s 2y ago
I am curious where you are coming from- are you a religious person that feels like my distinction between religious and objective truth undermines your beliefs, or are you a non-religious person that dislikes the idea that religion may still have value, even if the beliefs are not based on objective physical truth? Myself, I would say I am non-religious, but have a lot of respect for the purpose and value religions offers people, and that one benefits greatly by understanding and filling those roles and needs in other ways even if not practicing a religion. I very much dislike the Richard Dawkins follower crowd that hate religion with a passion, but have no understanding of it, and have no connection to or understanding of their own emotions, unconscious, or spirituality to their own detriment.

_yb2s 2y ago

Look at Wikiquote for some of St Augustines most well known quotes with what I am saying in mind- if you can’t see a dozen examples you’re not going to agree with a specific one I point out either. I am refusing to give a specific example for a reason- you will almost certainly disagree immediately with the specific example - because they are written with an alternate interpretation possible on purpose - and then think my whole premise must be wrong as a result without looking at the bigger picture, and seeing how often this plausibly deniable concept keeps coming up. > You are suggesting for example that there is no redemption or afterlife I am suggesting no such thing, only that dwelling on this issue is to miss the point, and even worrying about it would be an obstacle. One must deeply feel these ideas and practice accordingly to follow this spiritual path- even getting stuck on arguing that they are true would be an obstacle to that.

_yb2s 2y ago

I am curious where you are coming from- are you a religious person that feels like my distinction between religious and objective truth undermines your beliefs, or are you a non-religious person that dislikes the idea that religion may still have value, even if the beliefs are not based on objective physical truth? Myself, I would say I am non-religious, but have a lot of respect for the purpose and value religions offers people, and that one benefits greatly by understanding and filling those roles and needs in other ways even if not practicing a religion. I very much dislike the Richard Dawkins follower crowd that hate religion with a passion, but have no understanding of it, and have no connection to or understanding of their own emotions, unconscious, or spirituality to their own detriment.