11 ms·

Maybe he got influenced by Pixar guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQKm7ifJpVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQKm7ifJpVE Even though IRIX had its quirks.

andrewstuart 2y ago
I'm not sure the timeline adds up for that - maybe Next cam before he bought Pixar?
- throw0101b 2y ago
  > I'm not sure the timeline adds up for that - maybe Next cam before he bought Pixar? Jobs became majority stakeholder of Pixar in 1986. NeXT was incorporated in 1988. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar#Independent_company_(1986–1999) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar#Independent_company_(198... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer But Unix workstations were a thing even before then: 68k-based systems were already around in the 1980s, with Sun (taking just one example) releasing their first product in 1982: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-1 IRIX-based systems on MIPS were big in the 1990s (post-Jurassic Park), but SGI also started with 68k-based systems.
  - Keyframe 2y ago
    They launched NeXTcube in 1988, but they incorporated in sep 1985.
- Keyframe 2y ago
  it's a far-fetched idea anyways. It's a five months difference; NeXT in sep '85, and pixar in feb '86. More likely scenario is they wanted to come to market as fast as possible with limited resources, so porting Mach kernel and BSD (both proven/robust things) to their platform was probably the fastest route; It'd also have an existing base of developers to attract and carried some weight if they targeted workstation market. edit: this is what made me think why maybe he was influenced, since Steve Jobs did actually launch another "cube" two years before NeXTcube, which was developed in the time before him buying pixar. This thing required an SGI/Sun to be attached: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer
- SllX 2y ago
  Steve Jobs left Apple and founded NeXT in late 1985 with the intent of developing a 3M computer: 1 MB of memory, 1 million pixels and 1 million instructions per second; or powerful enough to run wet lab simulations. Jobs bought Pixar in 1986 when they developed their own computer systems. Luxo Jr. was shown at SIGGRAPH that same year, one part advertisement for their computer, and one part fun hobby project because some of the Pixar guys aspired to one day do a fully computer animated full length feature film of their own. This worked out very very well for them. Eventually, but they also stopped developing the Pixar Computer System in 1990 in part because Jobs was losing a lot of money propping up both NeXT and Pixar. Development of NeXTSTEP began in 1986 under Avie Tevanian based upon the Mach kernel he had co-developed at Carnegie Mellon which was developed with the intention to replace the kernel in BSD, which at this point I believe is still just BSD and years away from fragmentation. NeXTSTEP 0.8 was previewed in October 1988 and all the core pieces were there: the Mach kernel, BSD, DriverKit, AppKit, FoundationKit, Objective-C runtime, and the NeXTSTEP GUI. 1.0 came in 1989. IRIX 3.0 was released in 1987 debuting the 4Sight window manager which isn’t too similar to what was released in NeXTSTEP but does use NeWS and IRIS GL, however it was based on System V UNIX. It’s not until Pixar started making movies, I think actually starting with Toy Story, that they bought Silicon Graphics workstations. For Toy Story, the render farm also started off using SGI but eventually moved to Sun computers. So if anything, IRIX and NeXTSTEP are probably a decent example of convergent evolution given they were both (at least initially) in the business of making high end graphical workstations and neither needed to reinvent the wheel for their target market.
  - Keyframe 2y ago
    SGI use within Lucas Film (and thus Pixar) goes way back to IRIS 1000/2000 era, so definitely 83/84 afaik.
    - SllX 2y ago
      Sure, but given the timeline, it’s unlikely the decision came about simply because he was influenced by “the Pixar guys”. I pointed out that the goal for the first NeXT computers was to be able to do wet lab simulations, and this was due to a conversation Jobs had with Paul Berg while Jobs was still at Apple. They met again after Jobs founded NeXT before drawing up the initial spec in September 1985. More likely the decision to use Mach/BSD was because Avie Tevanian was the project lead for the operating system. 4Sight also didn’t debut until IRIX 3.0 (1987, also when it picked up the IRIX name), prior to that they used mex which I traced back as far as 1985 and prior to that I’m not sure, but I don’t think they had a window manager and it seems unlikely they would prior to 1985.

andrewstuart 2y ago

I'm not sure the timeline adds up for that - maybe Next cam before he bought Pixar?

throw0101b 2y ago
> I'm not sure the timeline adds up for that - maybe Next cam before he bought Pixar? Jobs became majority stakeholder of Pixar in 1986. NeXT was incorporated in 1988. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar#Independent_company_(1986–1999) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar#Independent_company_(198... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer But Unix workstations were a thing even before then: 68k-based systems were already around in the 1980s, with Sun (taking just one example) releasing their first product in 1982: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-1 IRIX-based systems on MIPS were big in the 1990s (post-Jurassic Park), but SGI also started with 68k-based systems.
- Keyframe 2y ago
  They launched NeXTcube in 1988, but they incorporated in sep 1985.
Keyframe 2y ago
it's a far-fetched idea anyways. It's a five months difference; NeXT in sep '85, and pixar in feb '86. More likely scenario is they wanted to come to market as fast as possible with limited resources, so porting Mach kernel and BSD (both proven/robust things) to their platform was probably the fastest route; It'd also have an existing base of developers to attract and carried some weight if they targeted workstation market. edit: this is what made me think why maybe he was influenced, since Steve Jobs did actually launch another "cube" two years before NeXTcube, which was developed in the time before him buying pixar. This thing required an SGI/Sun to be attached: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer
SllX 2y ago
Steve Jobs left Apple and founded NeXT in late 1985 with the intent of developing a 3M computer: 1 MB of memory, 1 million pixels and 1 million instructions per second; or powerful enough to run wet lab simulations. Jobs bought Pixar in 1986 when they developed their own computer systems. Luxo Jr. was shown at SIGGRAPH that same year, one part advertisement for their computer, and one part fun hobby project because some of the Pixar guys aspired to one day do a fully computer animated full length feature film of their own. This worked out very very well for them. Eventually, but they also stopped developing the Pixar Computer System in 1990 in part because Jobs was losing a lot of money propping up both NeXT and Pixar. Development of NeXTSTEP began in 1986 under Avie Tevanian based upon the Mach kernel he had co-developed at Carnegie Mellon which was developed with the intention to replace the kernel in BSD, which at this point I believe is still just BSD and years away from fragmentation. NeXTSTEP 0.8 was previewed in October 1988 and all the core pieces were there: the Mach kernel, BSD, DriverKit, AppKit, FoundationKit, Objective-C runtime, and the NeXTSTEP GUI. 1.0 came in 1989. IRIX 3.0 was released in 1987 debuting the 4Sight window manager which isn’t too similar to what was released in NeXTSTEP but does use NeWS and IRIS GL, however it was based on System V UNIX. It’s not until Pixar started making movies, I think actually starting with Toy Story, that they bought Silicon Graphics workstations. For Toy Story, the render farm also started off using SGI but eventually moved to Sun computers. So if anything, IRIX and NeXTSTEP are probably a decent example of convergent evolution given they were both (at least initially) in the business of making high end graphical workstations and neither needed to reinvent the wheel for their target market.
- Keyframe 2y ago
  SGI use within Lucas Film (and thus Pixar) goes way back to IRIS 1000/2000 era, so definitely 83/84 afaik.
  - SllX 2y ago
    Sure, but given the timeline, it’s unlikely the decision came about simply because he was influenced by “the Pixar guys”. I pointed out that the goal for the first NeXT computers was to be able to do wet lab simulations, and this was due to a conversation Jobs had with Paul Berg while Jobs was still at Apple. They met again after Jobs founded NeXT before drawing up the initial spec in September 1985. More likely the decision to use Mach/BSD was because Avie Tevanian was the project lead for the operating system. 4Sight also didn’t debut until IRIX 3.0 (1987, also when it picked up the IRIX name), prior to that they used mex which I traced back as far as 1985 and prior to that I’m not sure, but I don’t think they had a window manager and it seems unlikely they would prior to 1985.