> by ignoring this aspect of what makes us human we've really moved the goalposts on what counts as AGI. I would not say so, some people have a great interest

> by ignoring this aspect of what makes us human we've really moved the goalposts on what counts as AGI. I would not say so, some people have a great interest at over selling something, and I would say that a great number of people, especially around here, completely lack a deep understanding of what most neural network actually do (or feign ignorance for profit) and forget sometimes it is just a very clever fit in a really high dimensional parameter space. I would even go as far as claiming that people say that a neural network "understand" something is absolutely absurd: there is no question that a mechanical calculator does not think, so why having encoded the data and manipulated it in a way that gives you a defined response (or series of weights) tailored to a series specific input is making the machine think, where there is no way to give it something that you have not 'taught' it, and here I do not mean literally teaching because it does not learn. It is a clever encoding trick and a clever way to traverse and classify data, it is not reasoning, we do not even really understand how we reason but we can tell that it is not the same way a neural network encodes data, even if there might be some similarity to a degree. > if its output was totally indistinguishable from a human's, would it matter? Well if the output of the machine was indistinguishable from a human, the question would be which one? If your need is someone does not reflect much and just spews random ramblings then I would argue that bar could be cleared quite quickly and it would not matter much because we do not really care about what is being said. If your need is someone that has deep thoughts and deep reflections on their actions, then I would say that at that point it does matter quite a bit. I will always put down the IBM quote in this situation "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore must never make a management decision" and this is at the core of the problem here, people REALLY start to do cognitive offloading to machines, and while you can trust (to a degree), a series of machine to give you something semi consistent, you cannot expect to get the 'right' output for random inputs. And this is where the whole subtlety lies. 'Right' in this context does not mean correct, because in most of the cases there are no 'right' way to approach a problem, only a series of compromises, and the parameter space is a bit more complex, and one rarely optimises against tangible parameters or easily parametrisable metric. For example how would you rate how ethical something is? What would be your metric of choice to guarantee that something would be done in an ethical manner? How would you parametrise urgency given an unexpected input? Those are, at least for, what I would qualify, a very limited understanding of the universe, the real questions that people should be asking themselves. Once people have stopped considering a tool as a tool, and foregone understanding it leads to deep misunderstandings. All this being said, the usefulness of some deep learning tools is undeniable and is really something interesting. But I maintain that if we would have a machine, in a specific location, that we needed to feed a punch card and get a punch card out to translate, we would not have so much existential questions because we would hear the machine clacking away instead of seeing it as a black box that we misconstrue its ramblings as thinking... Talking about ramblings, that was a bit of a bout of rambling. Well, time for another coffee I guess...