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Did you actually read what I wrote? I completely agree that genocide is a matter of intent. That is why my comment was about intent, not about scale. in fact I

Did you actually read what I wrote? I completely agree that genocide is a matter of intent. That is why my comment was about intent, not about scale. in fact I specifically said Israel is killing too many non-combatants, indicating the scale is bad and if scale is what mattered I probably would call it genocide. But as you say, it is not about scale. That is why I made the point that the non-combatant casualties would almost certainly significantly decrease if one side of this conflict was not aggressively using humans as shields – that to me speaks to the intent of Israel/IDF. The people ultimately to blame for the high civilian casualties are the people who 1. started the war and 2. insist on staging that war entirely in civilian areas. That is Hamas on both counts. I am certain that if tomorrow Hamas said "hey, let's have a pitched battle in the style of Middle Ages Europe, where we go to a field and send all our fighters against all your fighters and and the victor is the one left standing", the IDF would be happy to oblige. But Hamas will not do that, because they want the destruction of Palestinian peoples more than Israel does. After all, it helps their cause much more than it does the cause of Israel (and they clearly can't actually win the war without the human shields).

MomsAVoxell 2y ago
> the IDF would be happy to oblige Do you speak for the IDF? How is it then that you can also represent Hamas? > insist on staging that war entirely in civilian areas. Gaza is an open-air concentration camp which has suffered under Israeli military control for decades. Where else are they going to fight - specially constructed stadiums built for the purpose? Outside, in the no-mans land between Gaza and Israel? 2.1 million human beings have been uprooted from their homes and herded into a 360km2 area by their oppressors - should they escape the military barriers that surround them and bring the fight elsewhere? > But Hamas will not do that, because they want the destruction of Palestinian peoples more than Israel does. This position is duplicitous and preposterous. The Palestinian people want to be free from the oppression they have suffered for decades. Israel, a powerful nation, had many, many chances to make peace happen in Gaza - it didn’t happen because Israeli society is fundamentalist, militaristic and racist, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
- fastball 2y ago
  You keep conflating Hamas with Palestinians. It seems deliberate. I for one do not think they are the same thing, but if you do I'm not sure this conversation can go anywhere. I am also unsure why you think you should be able to speak to the motives of Hamas and Israel (and therefore assert the intent is genocide) while I cannot. As a side note, you argue like you are on Reddit. It might be helpful to review the site guidelines[1] about discussion on Hacker News. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - MomsAVoxell 2y ago
    I don’t conflate Hamas with Palestinians at all, in fact I believe that it is those justifying the wanton murder of the Palestinian population by an oppressive military force who are doing exactly that. But we know full well that duplicity has been weaponized in this conflict. As for your ‘tone policing’, I’m not sure I can take your advice to heart given the position you take, of justifying the inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people. Provide evidence that this statement is true and then perhaps we can discuss your desire to manipulate my position to fit your rhetoric: “But Hamas will not do that, because they want the destruction of Palestinian peoples more than Israel does.” The only ones destroying the Palestinian people are the IDF.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- zigilo 2y ago
  > Gaza is an open-air concentration camp Really? How many concentration camps have car dealers in them? e.g. Kia Motors Gaza https://g.co/kgs/pVeLh8E https://g.co/kgs/pVeLh8E Maybe you should rethink your rhetoric.
  - MomsAVoxell 2y ago
    Maybe you should re-think what it takes to violate human rights at massive scale while fooling the rest of the world into believing its not happening…

MomsAVoxell 2y ago

> the IDF would be happy to oblige Do you speak for the IDF? How is it then that you can also represent Hamas? > insist on staging that war entirely in civilian areas. Gaza is an open-air concentration camp which has suffered under Israeli military control for decades. Where else are they going to fight - specially constructed stadiums built for the purpose? Outside, in the no-mans land between Gaza and Israel? 2.1 million human beings have been uprooted from their homes and herded into a 360km2 area by their oppressors - should they escape the military barriers that surround them and bring the fight elsewhere? > But Hamas will not do that, because they want the destruction of Palestinian peoples more than Israel does. This position is duplicitous and preposterous. The Palestinian people want to be free from the oppression they have suffered for decades. Israel, a powerful nation, had many, many chances to make peace happen in Gaza - it didn’t happen because Israeli society is fundamentalist, militaristic and racist, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

fastball 2y ago
You keep conflating Hamas with Palestinians. It seems deliberate. I for one do not think they are the same thing, but if you do I'm not sure this conversation can go anywhere. I am also unsure why you think you should be able to speak to the motives of Hamas and Israel (and therefore assert the intent is genocide) while I cannot. As a side note, you argue like you are on Reddit. It might be helpful to review the site guidelines[1] about discussion on Hacker News. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- MomsAVoxell 2y ago
  I don’t conflate Hamas with Palestinians at all, in fact I believe that it is those justifying the wanton murder of the Palestinian population by an oppressive military force who are doing exactly that. But we know full well that duplicity has been weaponized in this conflict. As for your ‘tone policing’, I’m not sure I can take your advice to heart given the position you take, of justifying the inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people. Provide evidence that this statement is true and then perhaps we can discuss your desire to manipulate my position to fit your rhetoric: “But Hamas will not do that, because they want the destruction of Palestinian peoples more than Israel does.” The only ones destroying the Palestinian people are the IDF.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
zigilo 2y ago
> Gaza is an open-air concentration camp Really? How many concentration camps have car dealers in them? e.g. Kia Motors Gaza https://g.co/kgs/pVeLh8E https://g.co/kgs/pVeLh8E Maybe you should rethink your rhetoric.
- MomsAVoxell 2y ago
  Maybe you should re-think what it takes to violate human rights at massive scale while fooling the rest of the world into believing its not happening…