4 ms·

What is it about partaking in or witnessing the killing of animals or humans that makes one more connected to reality?

AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
Lots of people who spend time working with livestock on a farm describe a certain acceptance and understanding of death that most modern people have lost.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sabbaticaldev 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Eisenstein 2y ago
      Socratic questioning is not cluelessness and your inability to answer does not bolster your position.
      - zmgsabst 2y ago
        Socratic questioning requires the asker to have a deeper understanding whereby they guide with their questions. Do you think that’s what people see in yours?
        Eisenstein 2y ago
        I don't know what people are seeing in my questions, but apparently they don't like answering them, because no one has. I'm trying to understand what people mean by 'detachment from reality' and how such a thing is related to 'understanding of mortality', and how a deeper understanding of mortality and acceptance of death would manifest in ways that can be seen. If 'acceptance of death' does not actually mean that they are more comfortable talking about death, or allowing people to choose their own deaths, or accepting their loved one's deaths with more ease, then what does it mean? Is it something else? Why can't anyone say what it is? Why it is so obvious to the people stating that it happens, but no one can explain why the questions I asked are not being answered or are wrong? If this is come basic conflict of frameworks wherein I am making assumptions that make no sense to the people who are making the assertions I am questioning, then what am I missing here?
        sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        [dead]
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        zmgsabst 2y ago
        > I don't know what people are seeing in my questions, but apparently they don't like answering them > I'm trying to understand Wouldn’t people be responding poorly to your questions, because they seem facetious when that’s precisely what people mean? — and obviously so? Eg, my niece dealt better with pets dying than other kids her age I’ve known since her family regularly slaughters chickens. > people mean by 'detachment from reality' and how such a thing is related to 'understanding of mortality' This too is so obvious that people think you’re responding in poor faith — eg, the professional managerial class has destroyed multiple cities by being so detached from reality that they no longer imprison career criminals, resulting in social breakdown not even seen in many third world countries. That’s why I don’t think it’s Socratic questioning: just you not understanding the basic implications or yourself being unaware of reality. > no one can explain why the questions I asked are not being answered or are wrong? I did say why: you come across as arrogant and ignorant by asking seemingly facetious questions about obvious implications — then comparing yourself to Socrates for doing so.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I don't have any data, but my anecdotal experience is a yes to those questions. >Are there other ways we can get a sense of how a more healthy acceptance of mortality would manifest? In concept, yes, I think home family death can also have a similar impact. It is not very common in the US, but 50 years ago, elders would typically die at home with family. There are cultures today, even materially advanced ones, where people spend time with the freshly dead body of loved ones instead of running from it and compartmentalizing it.
  - Nasrudith 2y ago
    It isn't farmers, but oncologists are notably more likely to choose hospice for themselves when it comes to cancer care. It is similar for familiarity with death + end of life decisions. Of course that case is probably related to knowing the actual probabilities and the suffering involved. Medicine isn't just "drink a potion and be instantly cured or instantly die", it is a long painful process.
Dalewyn 2y ago
In Japan, some sushi bars keep live fish in tanks that you can order to have served to you as sushi/sashimi. The chefs butcher and serve the fish right in front of you, and because it was alive merely seconds ago the meat will still be twitching when you get it. If they also serve the rest of the fish as decoration, the fish might still be gasping for oxygen. Japanese don't really think much of it, they're used to it and acknowledge the fleeting nature of life and that eating something means you are taking another life to sustain your own. The same environment will likely leave most westerners squeamish or perhaps even gag simply because the west goes out of its way to hide where food comes from, even though that simply is the reality we all live in. Personally, I enjoy meats respecting and appreciating the fact that the steak or sashimi or whatever in front of me was a live animal at one point just like me. Salads too, those vegetables were (are?) just as alive as I am.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  If I were to cook a pork chop in the kitchen of some of my middle eastern relatives they would feel sick and would probably throw out the pan I cooked it with (and me from their house as well). Isn't this similar to why people unfamiliar with that style of seafood would feel sick -- cultural views on what is and is not normal food -- and not because of their view of mortality?
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    You're not grasping the point, which I don't necessarily blame you. Imagine that to cook that pork chop, the chef starts by butchering a live pig. Also imagine that he does that in view of everyone in the restaurant rather than in the "backyard" kitchen let alone a separate butchering facility hundreds of miles away. That's the sushi chef butchering and serving a live fish he grabbed from the tank behind him. When you can actually see where your food is coming from and what "food" truly even is, that gives you a better grasp on reality and life. It's also the true meaning behind the often used joke that goes: "You don't want to see how sausages are made."
    - Eisenstein 2y ago
shadowerm 2y ago
No irony in this comment lol.

Lots of people who spend time working with livestock on a farm describe a certain acceptance and understanding of death that most modern people have lost.

Eisenstein 2y ago
[flagged]
- sabbaticaldev 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    Socratic questioning is not cluelessness and your inability to answer does not bolster your position.
    - zmgsabst 2y ago
      Socratic questioning requires the asker to have a deeper understanding whereby they guide with their questions. Do you think that’s what people see in yours?
      - Eisenstein 2y ago
        I don't know what people are seeing in my questions, but apparently they don't like answering them, because no one has. I'm trying to understand what people mean by 'detachment from reality' and how such a thing is related to 'understanding of mortality', and how a deeper understanding of mortality and acceptance of death would manifest in ways that can be seen. If 'acceptance of death' does not actually mean that they are more comfortable talking about death, or allowing people to choose their own deaths, or accepting their loved one's deaths with more ease, then what does it mean? Is it something else? Why can't anyone say what it is? Why it is so obvious to the people stating that it happens, but no one can explain why the questions I asked are not being answered or are wrong? If this is come basic conflict of frameworks wherein I am making assumptions that make no sense to the people who are making the assertions I am questioning, then what am I missing here?
        sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        [dead]
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        zmgsabst 2y ago
        > I don't know what people are seeing in my questions, but apparently they don't like answering them > I'm trying to understand Wouldn’t people be responding poorly to your questions, because they seem facetious when that’s precisely what people mean? — and obviously so? Eg, my niece dealt better with pets dying than other kids her age I’ve known since her family regularly slaughters chickens. > people mean by 'detachment from reality' and how such a thing is related to 'understanding of mortality' This too is so obvious that people think you’re responding in poor faith — eg, the professional managerial class has destroyed multiple cities by being so detached from reality that they no longer imprison career criminals, resulting in social breakdown not even seen in many third world countries. That’s why I don’t think it’s Socratic questioning: just you not understanding the basic implications or yourself being unaware of reality. > no one can explain why the questions I asked are not being answered or are wrong? I did say why: you come across as arrogant and ignorant by asking seemingly facetious questions about obvious implications — then comparing yourself to Socrates for doing so.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    [flagged]
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I don't have any data, but my anecdotal experience is a yes to those questions. >Are there other ways we can get a sense of how a more healthy acceptance of mortality would manifest? In concept, yes, I think home family death can also have a similar impact. It is not very common in the US, but 50 years ago, elders would typically die at home with family. There are cultures today, even materially advanced ones, where people spend time with the freshly dead body of loved ones instead of running from it and compartmentalizing it.
- Nasrudith 2y ago
  It isn't farmers, but oncologists are notably more likely to choose hospice for themselves when it comes to cancer care. It is similar for familiarity with death + end of life decisions. Of course that case is probably related to knowing the actual probabilities and the suffering involved. Medicine isn't just "drink a potion and be instantly cured or instantly die", it is a long painful process.

Dalewyn 2y ago

In Japan, some sushi bars keep live fish in tanks that you can order to have served to you as sushi/sashimi. The chefs butcher and serve the fish right in front of you, and because it was alive merely seconds ago the meat will still be twitching when you get it. If they also serve the rest of the fish as decoration, the fish might still be gasping for oxygen. Japanese don't really think much of it, they're used to it and acknowledge the fleeting nature of life and that eating something means you are taking another life to sustain your own. The same environment will likely leave most westerners squeamish or perhaps even gag simply because the west goes out of its way to hide where food comes from, even though that simply is the reality we all live in. Personally, I enjoy meats respecting and appreciating the fact that the steak or sashimi or whatever in front of me was a live animal at one point just like me. Salads too, those vegetables were (are?) just as alive as I am.

Eisenstein 2y ago
If I were to cook a pork chop in the kitchen of some of my middle eastern relatives they would feel sick and would probably throw out the pan I cooked it with (and me from their house as well). Isn't this similar to why people unfamiliar with that style of seafood would feel sick -- cultural views on what is and is not normal food -- and not because of their view of mortality?
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  You're not grasping the point, which I don't necessarily blame you. Imagine that to cook that pork chop, the chef starts by butchering a live pig. Also imagine that he does that in view of everyone in the restaurant rather than in the "backyard" kitchen let alone a separate butchering facility hundreds of miles away. That's the sushi chef butchering and serving a live fish he grabbed from the tank behind him. When you can actually see where your food is coming from and what "food" truly even is, that gives you a better grasp on reality and life. It's also the true meaning behind the often used joke that goes: "You don't want to see how sausages are made."
  - Eisenstein 2y ago

shadowerm 2y ago

No irony in this comment lol.